Alice Cooper Old School Boxset

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While Heaven Wept
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Re: Alice Cooper Old School Boxset

Post by While Heaven Wept » Thu Aug 25, 2011 8:06 pm

tommystooge wrote:
I love how you dodge answers, but if I decide not to reveal my sources, I'm not credible.
The burden of proof lies with you tommystooge.

I'm not calling you a liar and for all i know, you could be talking the truth.

However, if you continue to make totally unsubstantiated claims, I (and i'm sure many others on this board) will just learn to ignore your posts. No-one here wants to spend their time arguing but you must accept that your posts can and will be challenged.

Otherwise this forum would become full of spurious allegations, non truthes and baseless rumours.

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Re: Alice Cooper Old School Boxset

Post by tommystooge » Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:13 pm

A_MichaelUK wrote:>I said apparently to be polite,

Is it "polite" to put words into a dead man's mouth, though?

> but it is the truth,

Give us a source.

>I know exactly what I'm saying, I'm not concerned with whether anyone here doubt's my credibility...

In that case, there is nothing to debate. You can continue to make baseless statements into some kind of void, because with that approach, you're saying you don't want your comments to be studied.

>and anyone here can do the same, just do your research...

What "research" did you do?
I did the same research you did...
Remember The Coop !!

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Re: Alice Cooper Old School Boxset

Post by tommystooge » Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:17 pm

A_MichaelUK wrote:>I love how you dodge answers, but if I decide not to reveal my sources, I'm not credible.

Try that approach in a court of law and let's see what would happen.
Is that what this is? A court of Law...oh brother...I find it funny, that all I hear about is how Credible this forums wants to be, yet all i get is grade 2 schoolyard bickering...
Remember The Coop !!

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Re: Alice Cooper Old School Boxset

Post by A_MichaelUK » Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:29 pm

>I did the same research you did...

Really? I didn't see you there when I was doing it.

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Re: Alice Cooper Old School Boxset

Post by A_MichaelUK » Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:32 pm

>Is that what this is? A court of Law

Obviously, you know I didn't say that.

>I find it funny, that all I hear about is how Credible this forums wants to be, yet all i get is grade 2 schoolyard bickering...

Are you saying that not providing evidence makes you "Credible"?

>yet all i get is grade 2 schoolyard bickering...

Is that what you call it? I call it being asked to substantiate statements.

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Re: Alice Cooper Old School Boxset

Post by GNDM » Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:36 pm

In case you missed it....

tommystooge,
Could you do me a favor and tell me what Dennis said about the break up....and if he confirmed that the band members were told not to discuss it when making the Box Set. Please send it by private message. It will go no further. Thanks.

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Re: Alice Cooper Old School Boxset

Post by ThePainAddict » Fri Aug 26, 2011 1:31 am

Does anybody really think that after all of these years all the members would come to a definitive consensus on the reasons for the break up?
Even if all of them spoke for 60 minutes apiece, I don't think we would come closer to an agreement.
All of them have disclosed some reasons that contributed to the cause (and various parties have taken some of those to ridiculous conclusions). I think every possible reason has been discussed several times in these forums (with and without sources).
I think most of us have derived our own opinions (some more valid than others) and it is almost entirely unlikely that anything said now will change those opinions.

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Re: Alice Cooper Old School Boxset

Post by GNDM » Fri Aug 26, 2011 2:02 am

ThePainAddict wrote:Does anybody really think that after all of these years all the members would come to a definitive consensus on the reasons for the break up?
Even if all of them spoke for 60 minutes apiece, I don't think we would come closer to an agreement.
All of them have disclosed some reasons that contributed to the cause (and various parties have taken some of those to ridiculous conclusions). I think every possible reason has been discussed several times in these forums (with and without sources).
I think most of us have derived our own opinions (some more valid than others) and it is almost entirely unlikely that anything said now will change those opinions.
VERY correct. I think we have someone here, in Mr. Stooge, who wants to put his imprint on this forum and really does not care if his "thoughts" have any merit. He has been asked several times to elaborate on his "facts" and he has not. He clamors on about doing research, yet he refuses to reveal his sources....like he is a newspaper reporter and not an historical researcher.

Truthfully, I would like him to publicly state who told him that the three former band members were "not allowed" to talk about the breakup during the DVD taping. THAT, is a more current allegation, and a much less "researched" comment. There does not seem to be a need for a definitive consensus on that topic...just a simple who said it and who told tommystooge.

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Re: Alice Cooper Old School Boxset

Post by Toronto Bob » Fri Aug 26, 2011 2:20 am

I don't think it would satisfy anyone - even if tommystooge "revealed his sources". I'm sure people would just say "bs .. prove that they said that to you" and unless tommy had recorded the conversation and posted the audio files - peopple would still not believe him and so on and so forth.

As far as all the principle players all having a different POV on the break up - well of course they would. It would be interesting to hear them all, compare and contrast.

As for me, I'm only so interestd in going over that ground again. I would just be content to see some amicable resolution and have the band record new material and do a tour. That would be sweet but I'm not holding my breath on that one.

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Re: Alice Cooper Old School Boxset

Post by Devon » Fri Aug 26, 2011 2:33 am

I don't think it would satisfy anyone - even if tommystooge "revealed his sources". I'm sure people would just say "bs .. prove that they said that to you" and unless tommy had recorded the conversation and posted the audio files - peopple would still not believe him and so on and so forth.
He's not giving people a reason to believe him now since it seems SO incredibly hard to tell us who told him anything. We've gone a few pages now and he still can't tell us for some reason. If he would have said "So & So" told me that would have given him far more credibility on this subject.

If it goes further with no more information I will simply delete his initial post and all posts after (including mine) since it hasn't added anything and I have to assume is bad information.

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Re: Alice Cooper Old School Boxset

Post by GNDM » Fri Aug 26, 2011 2:44 am

Toronto Bob wrote:I don't think it would satisfy anyone - even if tommystooge "revealed his sources". I'm sure people would just say "bs .. prove that they said that to you" and unless tommy had recorded the conversation and posted the audio files - peopple would still not believe him and so on and so forth.

As far as all the principle players all having a different POV on the break up - well of course they would. It would be interesting to hear them all, compare and contrast.

As for me, I'm only so interestd in going over that ground again. I would just be content to see some amicable resolution and have the band record new material and do a tour. That would be sweet but I'm not holding my breath on that one.
I tend to agree with you Bob. But for reasons unknown to us, we are not probably ever going to hear all the different POV at one time. The band members don't owe anything more to the fans in that department and, as you said, the subject has been nearly beaten to death.

What mystifies me is why someone would come to this board with the accusation tommystooge put forth that the band members were "told not to speak about the break up". Why say something like that when you KNOW someone is going to ask you for verification...and you also know you can't/won't provide that verification? IMO, it appears that someone had an axe to grind and wanted to "make a statement"...true or not. Just plan unsupported gossip.

I know a lot of people have a distaste for Andy and his (shall we say) 'straight-forward' way of discussion. Well...with people like tommystooge lurking, we need posters to step up and question rumors/gossip/half-truths.
On many boards, people would read the stuff Mr. Stooge put forward and figure that is was gospel. (especially with Mr. Stooges assurances that he was privy to 'inside sources'.)

GNDM

Re: Alice Cooper Old School Boxset

Post by GNDM » Fri Aug 26, 2011 2:47 am

Devon,
I am afraid with types like tommystooge, he will only use your deletions as a sign to wave saying, "See, they won't let me tell the truth. Alices' people run this place and don't want the truth known."

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Re: Alice Cooper Old School Boxset

Post by Gunner » Fri Aug 26, 2011 7:21 am

Bob had nothing to do with Kiss, do you not know Kiss's history? It was all their own doing.
The mistake your making here (as many make) is that assume that what you have read/heard is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. My source was from soneone that worked with Bob Ezrin and 'hung out' with him. What reason do we have to dismiss this in favour of what KISS (this is a band that can cannot mention Alice as an influence remember!!) say!??
Some of the guys saw BDB tour and thought If one Alice could work, then how about 4.
That is the quote from KISS - which is obviously the truth!??? I read that members of KISS attended an earlier Cooper concert actually.
Bob did however produce probably their best album, Destroyer.
Well, let's face it, KISS weren't going to were they? Their own music amounts to a poor Slade in my book.
If one Alice could work, then how about 4.
Just going back to this quote, it's an insult to the Alice Cooper concept that is! Peter Criss - another Alice? I don't think so somehow. Alice Cooper amounts to a WHOLE LOT more than a bit of make-up, some fireworks and childish lyrics! Do you think Dali would be interested in their party time rock and roll for example?

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Re: Alice Cooper Old School Boxset

Post by Steven Allan » Fri Aug 26, 2011 7:56 am

Peter Criss was probably the most musically talented member of the original Kiss lineup. He was already an established musician before joining Kiss & some of his solo work is great. An excellent drummer and a bloody good singer as well.

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Re: Alice Cooper Old School Boxset

Post by dadascot » Fri Aug 26, 2011 8:56 am

You know, I've been following this thread and up to now just getting a bit humpty about the back and forth bickering, but, I actually think that Mr. Stooge might have a point. Now before everyone has a fit let me explain. Having been involved in many break-ups I have learnt that everyone involved has their own perspective on what happened and are 100% convinced that they are right and everyone else is wrong. The truth, is always somewhere inbetween. Add into the mix a thirty year gap and the waters are probably too muddy. BUT in those 30 years only really Alice had a platform to express his take on it cos he was the one that went on and grabbed a career and he was the one getting interviewed. Imagine if you were the one left behind not getting to voice your opinion! We know that MB went through a period when he was bitter. I am not saying Alice was wrong. He was asked his opinion and he gave what he believed to be the truth. since then the band has re-united, age will have mellowed some, and it is in no-one's interest to stoke it up again but there may well be something simmering below. Now IF someone involved told HIS version of events to stooge, and told him not to name him to keep the harmony in place then stooge is right not to name him. Should he have mentioned it in the first place? Well I'm not sure, in one sense I would like to hear more about it on the other hand a confidence is a confidence. But some of the people here demanding that stooge reveal his sources constantly post their opinions as FACTS and as if they are Alice's confidant without revealing their sources. I do get a feeling of double standards going on here.

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Re: Alice Cooper Old School Boxset

Post by dadascot » Fri Aug 26, 2011 8:57 am

P.S if we are about to go into an Alice V Kiss argument can we start another thread as this one has veered off course enough. Cheers

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Re: Alice Cooper Old School Boxset

Post by Steven Allan » Fri Aug 26, 2011 9:11 am

Yep, goo point. When I posted about Peter Criss I was aware this thread had gone completely off the rails and was concerned I hadn't helped at all, but I like Peter Criss :)

Getting back to the topic. Despite being a big AC fan I still haven't bought the Old School set. Don't get me wrong, I'd love it, but the price is more than I can currently afford. It is still floating about at around the 160 quid mark for the UK set so I will be picking it up at some point shortly.

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Re: Alice Cooper Old School Boxset

Post by A_MichaelUK » Fri Aug 26, 2011 9:52 am

>I think most of us have derived our own opinions (some more valid than others) and it is almost entirely unlikely that anything said now will change those opinions.

This is one of the best posts ever on this subject.

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Re: Alice Cooper Old School Boxset

Post by Gunner » Fri Aug 26, 2011 9:55 am

>I think most of us have derived our own opinions (some more valid than others) and it is almost entirely unlikely that anything said now will change those opinions.

This is one of the best posts ever on this subject.
I don't see why as it states that 'some opinions are more valid than others' - how does that work exactly????

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Re: Alice Cooper Old School Boxset

Post by A_MichaelUK » Fri Aug 26, 2011 9:56 am

> I think we have someone here, in Mr. Stooge, who wants to put his imprint on this forum and really does not care if his "thoughts" have any merit.

Exactly. It's like being someone who just wants to see their words posted on a screen without considering the implications.

>Truthfully, I would like him to publicly state who told him that the three former band members were "not allowed" to talk about the breakup during the DVD taping.

Also, he should tell us why he thinks he has the right to divulge this information (if it exists) on a public forum when none of the participants in question have not.

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