Alice Cooper Old School Boxset

[steven_crayn]

Why all the ganging up on toomystooge? The break up has never been discussed in a straightforward way and Alice's camp has never been known for straight talk. Even the delivery of this box set was a cagey affair.

You keep posting tommystooge - I'm glad not everyone here is a sickophant. Most people here think the box set was an unqualified success - that's how deluded they are.

he's got form for making ridiculous statements, the slagging he gave Steve Hunter told me all I needed to know about anything coming from Tommy Stooge and you should learn to spell sycophant before you start chucking that word about!

The Box set sold out I make that a success and you the deluded one!

[GNDM]

Why all the ganging up on toomystooge? The break up has never been discussed in a straightforward way and Alice's camp has never been known for straight talk. Even the delivery of this box set was a cagey affair.

You keep posting tommystooge - I'm glad not everyone here is a sickophant. Most people here think the box set was an unqualified success - that's how deluded they are.

Mr. Bob,

"Why all the ganging up on tommystooge?"
I don't know if asking for facts and evidence to back up his statements is 'ganging up'. But he opened the door...

"The breakup has never been discussed in a straightforward....etc,etc"
That may be true...but THAT is not at issue here

"Even the delivery of this box set was a cagey affair."
Not sure what you mean or why it is important to what has been addressed to Mr. Stooge.

"Most people here think the box set was an unqualified success - that's how deluded they are."
Also not relevant to the subject, but to diverge, could you give us the reasons behind why you think so?

"sickophant"
Good one.

So...T.Bob, are YOU satisfied with Mr. Stooges remarks? Do you take him at his word...or would you also prefer some names and quotes to back up his findings? I am willing to believe him (that the breakup was forbidden to be discussed), if he can provide better evidence than "I know a guy, who knows a guy...."

[Toronto Bob]

Why all the ganging up on toomystooge? The break up has never been discussed in a straightforward way and Alice's camp has never been known for straight talk. Even the delivery of this box set was a cagey affair.

You keep posting tommystooge - I'm glad not everyone here is a sickophant. Most people here think the box set was an unqualified success - that's how deluded they are.

he's got form for making ridiculous statements, the slagging he gave Steve Hunter told me all I needed to know about anything coming from Tommy Stooge and you should learn to spell sycophant before you start chucking that word about!

The Box set sold out I make that a success and you the deluded one!

(i) He was off base with the Steve Hunter comment, but iirc e fessed up later on - something very few people do

(ii) my obvious misspelling of sycophant is a play on words, demonstrates your lack of humour or perception or both

(iii) I said "unqualified" success - it sold old - that is a success, many people here loved everything about it - that's a success.

It contains very little previously unciculated material and omits some great songs that should have been included - that's not a success

The sound quality upgrade on much of the material is marginal - that's not a success.

The NR used on some of the material produced amateurish results - that's not a success

Its' coy roll out with no tracklist avaialble for quite some time - in fact if you wanted to assure yourself a copy via pre-order, you had to go in blind - that's not a success.

It's over priced thereby leaving some long time ardent fans out in the cold - that's not a success

Just look at Pink Floyd's deluxe DSOTM, WYWH and The Wall sets coming out - they're going for around $110 and they look every bit deluxe as Old School

So I stand by my original post and hopefully have given you something to consider

[Toronto Bob]

Why all the ganging up on toomystooge? The break up has never been discussed in a straightforward way and Alice's camp has never been known for straight talk. Even the delivery of this box set was a cagey affair.

You keep posting tommystooge - I'm glad not everyone here is a sickophant. Most people here think the box set was an unqualified success - that's how deluded they are.

Mr. Bob,

"Why all the ganging up on tommystooge?"
I don't know if asking for facts and evidence to back up his statements is 'ganging up'. But he opened the door...

"The breakup has never been discussed in a straightforward....etc,etc"
That may be true...but THAT is not at issue here

"Even the delivery of this box set was a cagey affair."
Not sure what you mean or why it is important to what has been addressed to Mr. Stooge.

"Most people here think the box set was an unqualified success - that's how deluded they are."
Also not relevant to the subject, but to diverge, could you give us the reasons behind why you think so?

"sickophant"
Good one.

So...T.Bob, are YOU satisfied with Mr. Stooges remarks? Do you take him at his word...or would you also prefer some names and quotes to back up his findings? I am willing to believe him (that the breakup was forbidden to be discussed), if he can provide better evidence than "I know a guy, who knows a guy...."

Well I don't take the "break up talk was forbidden" as an absolute truth but it's not a stretch to believe that some restraints may have either been implied or understood. Let's face it - Alice/Shep haven't exactly been forthright about the whole thing and there's been some bad blood along the way. Maybe Michael B. has been impossible to deal with too - I certainly don't lay all the blame at AC's feet. But the fundamental problem with discussing/theorizing all stuff ACG is the lack of honesty by some of the princple characters involved and then the authoritarian bs in which a certain member here gets to dominate this message board.

[GNDM]

Well I don't take the "break up talk was forbidden" as an absolute truth but it's not a stretch to believe that some restraints may have either been implied or understood.

"Restraints...implied or understood".
Perhaps even desirable? Since little may be gained, and maybe something lost...there could be a desire by some not to even go there.

And again, unless you have people that can back up Mr. Stooges claims...why even bring it up? IMO, it was nothing more than a silly and egocentric way of puffing ones self up.

BTW...if you offer me a choice of authoritarian BS, and Mr. Stooge's unsubstantiated BS....I will take the former.

[A_MichaelUK]

>The break up has never been discussed in a straightforward way

Who says it has to be? In case it's escaped your attention, the other band members have had plenty of opportunities to discuss the issue which they have done. If there's anything else you think you have the right to know, you know where you can find that information.

>and Alice's camp has never been known for straight talk.

Obviously, you would know a lot about that.
>Even the delivery of this box set was a cagey affair.

I don't understand what this means.

> Most people here think the box set was an unqualified success - that's how deluded they are.
Give us their names as I certainly don't remember seeing those posts!

[A_MichaelUK]

>The sound quality upgrade on much of the material is marginal - that's not a success.

This has been discussed already in this thread. I suggest you look at what DIMMA posted but in any case, most people who bought the box - set did not own any of the audio, let alone in the quality that you already owned it in. Also, your comment here is rather different to what you wrote earlier in this thread.

>Its' coy roll out with no tracklist avaialble for quite some time - in fact if you wanted to assure yourself a copy via pre-order, you had to go in blind - that's not a success.

Do you know anything about the retail business?

>t's over priced thereby leaving some long time ardent fans out in the cold - that's not a success

You can say the same about caviar, as well. I'm left "out in the cold" too but I don't go on a caviar site and moan about it.

>Just look at Pink Floyd's deluxe DSOTM, WYWH and The Wall sets coming out - they're going for around $110 and they look every bit deluxe as Old School

Are those limited editions?

>So I stand by my original post and hopefully have given you something to consider

Well, let me remind you of another "post", because there, you appeared to be a lot happier with the box - set than you now claim to be. You used the following phrases:
""Took me a while to actually take delivery of this tasty little sucker",
"My reviews will focus on the musical content as opposed to going into any detail of the nice package. Suffice to say it's a beauty and the desk is a unique item",
"Sounds vinyl sourced, no real sonic upgrade to what circulates, but was not included on TLACOAC and is an essential inclusion for this set",
"2. Nobody Likes Me (Demo)
Another essential inclusion even though we have the flexi-disc version on the previous box set. SQ is a nice upgrade from the circulating recordings, the noise reduction used thankfully, isn't too severe.",
"3. On a Train Trip (Sing Low Sweet Cheerio) (Demo)
More high end clarity on this track than previously circulating recordings, but the nr is a bit more noticeable. Good selection.",
"5. Easy Action Version Two (Radio ad)
I like these little ads sprinkled throughout the set,",
"When I finally saw the track list to the Old School set, I was most pleased with the inclusion of these songs from this tour. Absolutely essential for the AC history,"
"10. I'm Eighteen (Pre-production)
Another great inclusion but another victim of heavy use of nr",
"Conclusion:
Treasures is the right name for the disc IF you haven't been doing much collecting/trading/sharing of ACG material.",
"School’s Out (Puerto Rico)

Nice jam, thoroughly enjoyable and previously not in circulation!",
"Luney Tune (pre-production)

Love hearing the studio chatter, and of course to hear alternate lyrics and the laid back feel to this great tune is the kind of stuff I was hoping would be included in this set"
"My Stars (pre-production)

Another great selection.",
"School’s Out demo

Unlike much of the other songs on these preproduction recordings SO is very close in lyrics and arrangement to the final album version. It’s the previously circulating version but with a step up in SQ."
"Teenage Lament/Never Been Sold Before/Workin’ Up a Sweat

Same as previously circulating versions but with a step up in SQ. The MoL songs are a good study in how the tunes got much better with more work.",
"Never Been Sold Before is quite a bit different from the album version and it’s interesting to hear this alternate,",
"Muscle of Love/Teenage Lament ’74 (pre-production)

Previously uncirculated recordings (always a plus), sound quality dips a bit here but I’ll live with it. Is that MB doing the vocal on TL? Good inclusion despite the SQ.",
"Muscle of Love (Live in Rio)

Definitely a historical treat as nothing from this tour has officially been released and what little unofficially circulates are rather poor audience recordings." and
"Conclusion.

Decent SQ overall, with a couple of real historical essentials included." At least this disc contains a little over 40 minutes of uncirculated material, unlike Treasures One.

How do you explain these contradictions?

[A_MichaelUK]

> but it's not a stretch to believe that some restraints may have either been implied

That doesn't make the allegation true though.

>Let's face it - Alice/Shep haven't exactly been forthright about the whole thing

How do you know?

> and there's been some bad blood along the way.

There was but I don't think that's now the case.

>But the fundamental problem with discussing/theorizing all stuff ACG is the lack of honesty by some of the princple characters

Even assuming that is true, I'm not sure why you think we are owed "honesty" in this situation.

>involved and then the authoritarian bs in which a certain member here gets to dominate this message board.

I suppose we could allow speculation, misinformation and conspiracy theories to "dominate" instead. That would be a lot of fun.

[tommystooge]

Why all the ganging up on toomystooge? The break up has never been discussed in a straightforward way and Alice's camp has never been known for straight talk. Even the delivery of this box set was a cagey affair.

You keep posting tommystooge - I'm glad not everyone here is a sickophant. Most people here think the box set was an unqualified success - that's how deluded they are.

Mr. Bob,

"Why all the ganging up on tommystooge?"
I don't know if asking for facts and evidence to back up his statements is 'ganging up'. But he opened the door...

"The breakup has never been discussed in a straightforward....etc,etc"
That may be true...but THAT is not at issue here

"Even the delivery of this box set was a cagey affair."
Not sure what you mean or why it is important to what has been addressed to Mr. Stooge.

"Most people here think the box set was an unqualified success - that's how deluded they are."
Also not relevant to the subject, but to diverge, could you give us the reasons behind why you think so?

"sickophant"
Good one.

So...T.Bob, are YOU satisfied with Mr. Stooges remarks? Do you take him at his word...or would you also prefer some names and quotes to back up his findings? I am willing to believe him (that the breakup was forbidden to be discussed), if he can provide better evidence than "I know a guy, who knows a guy...."

Well I don't take the "break up talk was forbidden" as an absolute truth but it's not a stretch to believe that some restraints may have either been implied or understood. Let's face it - Alice/Shep haven't exactly been forthright about the whole thing and there's been some bad blood along the way. Maybe Michael B. has been impossible to deal with too - I certainly don't lay all the blame at AC's feet. But the fundamental problem with discussing/theorizing all stuff ACG is the lack of honesty by some of the princple characters involved and then the authoritarian bs in which a certain member here gets to dominate this message board.

Toronto Bob, you sir are on the right track my friend...

[tommystooge]

>Since I'm a MODERATOR here, I am asking that misinformation not be spread. I am >giving you another opportunity to post sources please.[/quote]

>he won't because he hasn't got any


My sources are more accurate than your break down on how to play Eighteen, Glen would laugh at this:


5 chords actually but A isn't one of them it's an Am.

Em C D as you correctly said with Am and Bm the other two.

There is confusion sometimes as power chords can be used often omitting the 3rd creating an ambiguity to the harmonic nature of the chord being major or minor.
Further confusion is created by the harmonic series so you could hear a major 3rd in a two note A5 chord, but the underlying harmony on 18 if playing A5 & B5 are of minor chords.

An accurate transcription of the song appeared in Guitarist magazine issue 221 March 2002.

[Toronto Bob]

>The sound quality upgrade on much of the material is marginal - that's not a success.

This has been discussed already in this thread. I suggest you look at what DIMMA posted but in any case, most people who bought the box - set did not own any of the audio, let alone in the quality that you already owned it in. Also, your comment here is rather different to what you wrote earlier in this thread.

>Its' coy roll out with no tracklist avaialble for quite some time - in fact if you wanted to assure yourself a copy via pre-order, you had to go in blind - that's not a success.

Do you know anything about the retail business?

>t's over priced thereby leaving some long time ardent fans out in the cold - that's not a success

You can say the same about caviar, as well. I'm left "out in the cold" too but I don't go on a caviar site and moan about it.

>Just look at Pink Floyd's deluxe DSOTM, WYWH and The Wall sets coming out - they're going for around $110 and they look every bit deluxe as Old School

Are those limited editions?

>So I stand by my original post and hopefully have given you something to consider

Well, let me remind you of another "post", because there, you appeared to be a lot happier with the box - set than you now claim to be. You used the following phrases:
""Took me a while to actually take delivery of this tasty little sucker",
"My reviews will focus on the musical content as opposed to going into any detail of the nice package. Suffice to say it's a beauty and the desk is a unique item",
"Sounds vinyl sourced, no real sonic upgrade to what circulates, but was not included on TLACOAC and is an essential inclusion for this set",
"2. Nobody Likes Me (Demo)
Another essential inclusion even though we have the flexi-disc version on the previous box set. SQ is a nice upgrade from the circulating recordings, the noise reduction used thankfully, isn't too severe.",
"3. On a Train Trip (Sing Low Sweet Cheerio) (Demo)
More high end clarity on this track than previously circulating recordings, but the nr is a bit more noticeable. Good selection.",
"5. Easy Action Version Two (Radio ad)
I like these little ads sprinkled throughout the set,",
"When I finally saw the track list to the Old School set, I was most pleased with the inclusion of these songs from this tour. Absolutely essential for the AC history,"
"10. I'm Eighteen (Pre-production)
Another great inclusion but another victim of heavy use of nr",
"Conclusion:
Treasures is the right name for the disc IF you haven't been doing much collecting/trading/sharing of ACG material.",
"School’s Out (Puerto Rico)

Nice jam, thoroughly enjoyable and previously not in circulation!",
"Luney Tune (pre-production)

Love hearing the studio chatter, and of course to hear alternate lyrics and the laid back feel to this great tune is the kind of stuff I was hoping would be included in this set"
"My Stars (pre-production)

Another great selection.",
"School’s Out demo

Unlike much of the other songs on these preproduction recordings SO is very close in lyrics and arrangement to the final album version. It’s the previously circulating version but with a step up in SQ."
"Teenage Lament/Never Been Sold Before/Workin’ Up a Sweat

Same as previously circulating versions but with a step up in SQ. The MoL songs are a good study in how the tunes got much better with more work.",
"Never Been Sold Before is quite a bit different from the album version and it’s interesting to hear this alternate,",
"Muscle of Love/Teenage Lament ’74 (pre-production)

Previously uncirculated recordings (always a plus), sound quality dips a bit here but I’ll live with it. Is that MB doing the vocal on TL? Good inclusion despite the SQ.",
"Muscle of Love (Live in Rio)

Definitely a historical treat as nothing from this tour has officially been released and what little unofficially circulates are rather poor audience recordings." and
"Conclusion.

Decent SQ overall, with a couple of real historical essentials included." At least this disc contains a little over 40 minutes of uncirculated material, unlike Treasures One.

How do you explain these contradictions?

No contradictions at all - I give credit where I think it's due and criticism is doled the same way. There are things I liked and there were things that were disappointing. That review goes to show how fair minded I am. The box is a qualified success, Alice's camp needed to give more say so to DIMMA - as it appearsthat his sources were used.

I can't believe there wasn't someone in the band who was a better archivist - lordie was Shep short-sighted. He may have hustled a good game back in the seventies but had limited vision in a few areas.

[steven_crayn]

>Since I'm a MODERATOR here, I am asking that misinformation not be spread. I am >giving you another opportunity to post sources please.

>he won't because he hasn't got any


My sources are more accurate than your break down on how to play Eighteen, Glen would laugh at this:

5 chords actually but A isn't one of them it's an Am.

Em C D as you correctly said with Am and Bm the other two.

There is confusion sometimes as power chords can be used often omitting the 3rd creating an ambiguity to the harmonic nature of the chord being major or minor.
Further confusion is created by the harmonic series so you could hear a major 3rd in a two note A5 chord, but the underlying harmony on 18 if playing A5 & B5 are of minor chords.

An accurate transcription of the song appeared in Guitarist magazine issue 221 March 2002.

You haven't listed any sources Tommy Stooge I have listed a source for a transcription of 18 which confirms what I already knew. Glen knew how to play the song you clearly don't if you are disputing the chord progression, not that that surprises me as you are the one who said you were embarrassed seeing Steve Hunter on stage with Alice Cooper and in saying that will forever have no credibility.

[steven_crayn]

Why all the ganging up on toomystooge? The break up has never been discussed in a straightforward way and Alice's camp has never been known for straight talk. Even the delivery of this box set was a cagey affair.

You keep posting tommystooge - I'm glad not everyone here is a sickophant. Most people here think the box set was an unqualified success - that's how deluded they are.

he's got form for making ridiculous statements, the slagging he gave Steve Hunter told me all I needed to know about anything coming from Tommy Stooge and you should learn to spell sycophant before you start chucking that word about!

The Box set sold out I make that a success and you the deluded one!

(i) He was off base with the Steve Hunter comment, but iirc e fessed up later on - something very few people do

(ii) my obvious misspelling of sycophant is a play on words, demonstrates your lack of humour or perception or both

(iii) I said "unqualified" success - it sold old - that is a success, many people here loved everything about it - that's a success.

It contains very little previously unciculated material and omits some great songs that should have been included - that's not a success

The sound quality upgrade on much of the material is marginal - that's not a success.

The NR used on some of the material produced amateurish results - that's not a success

Its' coy roll out with no tracklist avaialble for quite some time - in fact if you wanted to assure yourself a copy via pre-order, you had to go in blind - that's not a success.

It's over priced thereby leaving some long time ardent fans out in the cold - that's not a success

Just look at Pink Floyd's deluxe DSOTM, WYWH and The Wall sets coming out - they're going for around $110 and they look every bit deluxe as Old School

So I stand by my original post and hopefully have given you something to consider

Andy who was involved with the box set I think has answered your points but you are backtracking and are in denial.

Some people are never satisfied, would you have preferred it if it hadn't come out?

I got your 'joke' but don't think you are very funny accusing those who thought the box set was worthwhile as sycophants. I've spoken to Mike, Neal & Dennis about the break up and you and Tommy Stooge are making too much of it.

[Gunner]

Bob didn't work with Pink Floyd until The Wall so I doubt the 'story' about a song recorded 4 years before The Wall came out being about Bob is true.

We know that. However, you don't have to produce a band's record for them to write a song about you.

The song was actually written about the greed of the music business

Again, we know that, we read lyrics too.

[steven_crayn]

Bob didn't work with Pink Floyd until The Wall so I doubt the 'story' about a song recorded 4 years before The Wall came out being about Bob is true.

We know that. However, you don't have to produce a band's record for them to write a song about you.

The song was actually written about the greed of the music business

Again, we know that, we read lyrics too.

then why do you give any credibility that the song was about Bob?

I'd ask Roger Waters guitar player who I know to ask him but it's such a ridiculous story I wouldn't waste his time.

[nurserozetta]

[quote="Toronto Bob
Just look at Pink Floyd's deluxe DSOTM, WYWH and The Wall sets coming out - they're going for around $110 and they look every bit deluxe as Old School
[/quote]

and did you see the cost of the new U2 Achtung baby boxset ? $658 - makes old school look more than reaosnable IMO

[A_MichaelUK]

> it's funny how whatever your told by the Alice camp you consider to be true,

Again, more assumptions. What makes you think I only get my information from "the Alice camp"?!

>you should do a little more investigating and perhaps talk to ALL the parties involved,

How do you know I haven't?

[A_MichaelUK]

>No contradictions at all - I give credit where I think it's due and criticism is doled the same way.

I agree. How does that correspond with you now describing the "success" (whatever that is) as "marginal"?

>There are things I liked and there were things that were disappointing.

Yes. It was a balanced review. That's not what you just posted, though.

> The box is a qualified success,

That's not what your original reviews said.

>Alice's camp needed to give more say so to DIMMA - as it appearsthat his sources were used.

I don't even know what you're trying to say here. For one thing, DIMMA (as shown by his posts) would disagree with your latest theory which already contradicts YOUR OEN REVIEW and for another "his sources" (I think you mean his source material) is the same (but not limited) to that which is already in Alice's archive and does not necessarily include material that members of the band may have provided. You have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA of the range of material that was made available.

>I can't believe there wasn't someone in the band who was a better archivist - lordie was Shep short-sighted.

You're very confused. You start by blaing "someone in the band", then you blame "Shep" and obviously, since your some kind of prophet, if you had been in the music business in 1974, you would have been certain that in 2011, someone would care about your past activities. Do you happen to know who will win the lottery, as well?

>He may have hustled a good game back in the seventies but had limited vision in a few areas.

Yes. So "limited" that he has ended up a very wealthy and influential figure in not one, but several industries. How is your career coming along?

[homerx]

The boxset is a true collectors set. I found the price to be well worth it. It's one of those things you admire and enjoy for years. All the work put into it in such a short amount of time is rather boggling really.



Borjk has a super expensive set as well

[tommystooge]

>Since I'm a MODERATOR here, I am asking that misinformation not be spread. I am >giving you another opportunity to post sources please.

>he won't because he hasn't got any


My sources are more accurate than your break down on how to play Eighteen, Glen would laugh at this:

5 chords actually but A isn't one of them it's an Am.

Em C D as you correctly said with Am and Bm the other two.

There is confusion sometimes as power chords can be used often omitting the 3rd creating an ambiguity to the harmonic nature of the chord being major or minor.
Further confusion is created by the harmonic series so you could hear a major 3rd in a two note A5 chord, but the underlying harmony on 18 if playing A5 & B5 are of minor chords.

An accurate transcription of the song appeared in Guitarist magazine issue 221 March 2002.

You haven't listed any sources Tommy Stooge I have listed a source for a transcription of 18 which confirms what I already knew. Glen knew how to play the song you clearly don't if you are disputing the chord progression, not that that surprises me as you are the one who said you were embarrassed seeing Steve Hunter on stage with Alice Cooper and in saying that will forever have no credibility.

Glen would have laughed at that because, he played by feel, not by worring about "further confusion by the harmonic series so you could hear a major 3rd in a two note A5". what a joke...

And you clearly didn't get Toronto Bob's joke on Sick o phant...otherwise you wouldn't have been so quick to point out the spelling mistake, you would have commented on the bad joke.

...And I really don't believe you've talked to Neal, Dennis or Mike about the break up, otherwise your views would be in line with what I've been saying...