Alice Cooper Old School Boxset

[nimsowner]

Whether or not people know the difference between lossless and lossy formats, it has been shown most can't hear the difference.

[A_MichaelUK]

>A percentage of people will cancel their current order and order from AC.com JUST to get the download.

Exactly and I'm pretty sure existing orders made at www.alicecooper.com can be cancelled as well so that the item can be ordered again with the bonus recording.

[James1981]

>A percentage of people will cancel their current order and order from AC.com JUST to get the download.

Exactly and I'm pretty sure existing orders made at http://www.alicecooper.com can be cancelled as well so that the item can be ordered again with the bonus recording.

So if you do this it is still directing you to the universal music site for uk. If i cancel my order with them and then click on the link on ac.com for uk pre orders that puts me back to universal music and order the box set from them again will i get the download? Am i making sense?!!

[A_MichaelUK]

> uk pre orders that puts me back to universal music

Well, yes because they are the European distributors of the box set.

>and order the box set from them again will i get the download?

I'm still waiting for an answer to that.

[A_MichaelUK]

>Whether or not people know the difference between lossless and lossy formats, it has been shown most can't hear the difference.

Exactly.

[thenightmare92]

I thought it over again and again, and I finally gave in and bought the boxset. I bought it off alicecooper.com so I got the added download and it sounds pretty awesome!

[nimsowner]

I'm sure when it arrives you'll be happy you spent the money on it.

I'm sticking with my preorder thru the site. Someone has to help pay the bills.

[DIMMA]

Billion Dollar Babies from the Jagermeister Ice Cold Event is now up on alicecooper.com, where you can hear the complete track.
Alice and the original band sound PHENOMENAL on this recording.
I know I´m biased but I honestly think the original guys are playing as well now as ever. After all they are the originals and still the best!

Still miss GB though...

Ingo

[elnombre]

People are right to complain about the abysmal and confusing way in which this has been handled.

Got an e-mail this evening: "BONUS DOWNLOAD: Included with each Old School Box Set Order from AliceCooper.com - an IMMEDIATE DIGITAL DOWNLOAD of the Ice Cold Event, including: Billion Dollar Babies, Elected, Eighteen, Is It My Body, No More Mr. Nice Guy, School's Out, Under My Wheels."

Went to AliceCooper.com

Clicked the European pre-order link.

Apparently got re-directed with no notice that my order was being handled through a third party or that the offer I'd been e-mailed wouldn't apply.

Spent 210 euros.

No download. Thanks a **** bunch. Absolutely pathetic and inexcusable that in this e-mail, sent to all AC list members worldwide, and on the site, and on the European order site, in no place was it mentioned that everyone outside the US was ineligible.

Most band's merch sales on their official sites are handled through a third-party - Fanfire, UMusic etc. Who would assume that a direct item purchase link on AliceCooper.com wouldn't count as a purchase from AliceCooper.com ?

Making an offer directly by e-mail to European customers, directing them to your site, having them purchase the highly expensive item through links on your site and making no mention anywhere that the offer is not open to them strikes me as blatant false advertising.

Hopefully the 'powers that be' will have the decency to backtrack, but let's not pretend this hasn't been organized in a way that screws over everyone outside the US. After all, the promotion clearly says 'immediate download', and anyone who clicks on the AC.com order links for outside America does not receive an 'immediate download'. An afterthought will be better than no thought at all. No substitute for not tricking and kicking your most loyal fans in the teeth however.

[Si]

Quote from the email you recieved. It's the paragraph just above the bit you quoted:

"The full show - all 7 tracks - will be included as a digital album for all North american pre-orders."

Are you in North America?

Having said that it does NOT say it on AC.com, so you do have a point. It should be much clearer on the site you are ordering from, as not everyone would ever see that email.

Can`t you just cancel the order?

[elnombre]

I did see the North American pre-orders bit, but was unclear whether that meant 'only orders for delivery to NA addresses' or just ordered through AC.com, being a north American site, in the same way that UK customers can order either from North American Amazon.com or the regionalised Amazon.co.uk. What I'm saying is, if I'm in the UK and order 'Old School' from an American site, to my mind that could well still be a 'North American pre-order'.

Reaching AC.com all it says is that the download is "Included with each Old School Box Set Order from AliceCooper.com"

Perhaps I should have been more cautious, but seeing that on the official site and then...well, no need to repeat myself, clicking the official site pre-order link etc...

Anyhow, I will look into cancelling as you suggested.

I hope all involved with the promotion know how much they've muddied the waters, how unclear they've been, and how unreasonable it is to impose geo-location restrictions on such a coveted piece of material as a reunion concert album, and something that can be so easily and freely distributed to paying customers when people are already shelling out a vast sum. I was willing to pay more to buy through the official channels, just like those in the US who are enjoying the mp3s as I speak. Fans from the rest of the world can't hear them for love or money, and in my opinion that is a huge you to us.

[Si]

Can I also point you to the rules of these forums, regarding language, as you have broken them in both of your posts.

[James1981]

It is easy enough to cancel your order on the universal music site. I already have my box set ordered through there but i thought i would try ordering from the link on the official site to see if i would get the download (you dont). Its a pity really as most of the people that were at the jagermeister event are from the UK and it would be a great incentive for some to order the box set.

[A_MichaelUK]

>People are right to complain about the abysmal and confusing way in which this has been handled.

The process hasn't been entirely smooth but to say it's been "abysmal" and "confusing" is a slight exagerration.

>Apparently got re-directed with no notice that my order was being handled through a third party

They are not "a third party". They are currently the only distributor outside of North America and always have been and that was made clear from the very beginning about a thousand billion times when the box set was announced.

>or that the offer I'd been e-mailed wouldn't apply.

That's the part that needs clarifying.

>Most band's merch sales on their official sites are handled through a third-party - Fanfire, UMusic etc. Who would assume that a direct item purchase link on AliceCooper.com wouldn't count as a purchase from AliceCooper.com ?

This is where you're getting slightly confused. Universal (one of the companies you name) are handling this. There may be a very good reason why this is not currently available outside of America and Canada and hopefully next week there will be further clarification.

[A_MichaelUK]

>What I'm saying is, if I'm in the UK and order 'Old School' from an American site, to my mind that could well still be a 'North American pre-order'.

No, you would be wrong to think that. Orders placed that way will only work if you use an address from that continent - you can't use a European address using at that site. That's why there's another link right next to it.

>Perhaps I should have been more cautious,

That would have been a good idea.

> how unreasonable it is to impose geo-location restrictions on such a coveted piece of material as a reunion concert album,

Actually, that might have been one of the requirements of any agreement that was reached.

>Fans from the rest of the world can't hear them for love or money,

Obviously that's not true and let's not pretend it isn't.

[elnombre]

> Can I also point you to the rules of these forums, regarding language, as you have broken them in both of your posts.

My apologies, point taken.

>> The process hasn't been entirely smooth but to say it's been "abysmal" and "confusing" is a slight exagerration.

Considering how many people have ordered or attempted to order via AC.com, or are unsure about whether they can receive the mp3s outside of the US (look at the Facebook page for proof), either it's confusing or we're all stupid. You also state twice that certain elements require clarification (including the absence of any mention of the offer not applying to non-US customers on the official site). If it needs clarifying, then it's unclear. Why argue points like this?

> They are not "a third party". They are currently the only distributor outside of North America and always have been and that was made clear from the very beginning about a thousand billion times when the box set was announced.

I, party one, (the customer) am made an offer by AC.com, party two. I follow the links for that offer on AC.com and they redirect my order to Universal, party three. There is no question that European orders are being handled by a third party. Why try to say otherwise?

As for the 'thousand billion times' it's been made clear that Universal is the sole European distributor, could you point me to one of those instances on the AC.com pre-order page?

> Obviously that's not true and let's not pretend it isn't.

If you're suggesting that fans should freely 'obtain' music that many were perfectly willing to pay for, well, that's a sad state of affairs.

[A_MichaelUK]

> either it's confusing or we're all stupid.

If you find something is not satisfactory, your best approach would be the one that James1981 adopted which is to try and find out if there is a problem and how it can be rectified. It doesn't help your case no matter how much you may feel it's justified to use the kind of terms you used without first establishing what the facts are.

> If it needs clarifying, then it's unclear. Why argue points like this?

I never said it wasn't clear. I said that you exagerrated the problem as if your were some seriously aggrieved party in this. Why not calm down a bit and wait until the smoke clears before making those statements. I already said in reply to James1981 that I'm trying to get some clarification.

> party one, (the customer) am made an offer by AC.com, party two. I follow the links for that offer on AC.com and they redirect my order to Universal, party three.

Are you being serious?! For the millionth time, this item is not being distributed by http://www.alicecooper.com in Europe - it is being distributed by Universal Music.

>There is no question that European orders are being handled by a third party. Why try to say otherwise?

Because you made it sound like they have only just become involved with this. Universal Music was ALWAYS the European distributor and that was ALWAYS made clear at http://www.alicecooper.com as well as press releases. Do you REALLY think that there is an army of people at http://www.alicecooper.com who are taking delivery of hundreds or thousands of copies of the box set from the factory, then packing them and writing out the delivery addresses on them, then taking them to the post office or any other delivery company and arranging for each single one to be delivered to those who have bought it?! That's what distributors are for. It's not the job of an artist's web - site, so do try and be realistic about this.

> could you point me to one of those instances on the AC.com pre-order page?

Yes. Go to http://alicecooper.com/alice-cooper-box ... rest-world and hold your cursor over the link that says "Great Britain / United Kingdom / Europe" and see what happens. You may also not have noticed that even the orders placed for North America and Canada are not handled by wwww.alicecooper.com either.

>If you're suggesting that fans should freely 'obtain' music that many were perfectly willing to pay for, well, that's a sad state of affairs.

I'm not suggesting anything like that at all, so try and avoid putting words in my mouth, if you possibly can. You wrote: "Fans from the rest of the world can't hear them for love or money" which (unfortunately) is false.

[elnombre]

> either it's confusing or we're all stupid.

If you find something is not satisfactory, your best approach would be the one that James1981 adopted which is to try and find out if there is a problem and how it can be rectified. It doesn't help your case no matter how much you may feel it's justified to use the kind of terms you used without first establishing what the facts are.

I'm a customer, it's not my job to clearly define the terms of sale. That would be AC.com's job. The 'facts' are that AC.com is misleading customers by not mentioning on their website that pre-orders purchased by clicking on their own 'Rest Of World' link are not eligible for their own offers.

> If it needs clarifying, then it's unclear. Why argue points like this?

I never said it wasn't clear.

I already said in reply to James1981 that I'm trying to get some clarification.

Please tell me you're deliberately missing the point. You have repeatedly said things need clarification, including the point I stated about the website.

'Clarification. Verb: To make clear'

If something needs clarification, it is unclear. What's the point of nitpicking over blatantly obvious facts like that?

> party one, (the customer) am made an offer by AC.com, party two. I follow the links for that offer on AC.com and they redirect my order to Universal, party three.

Are you being serious?! For the millionth time, this item is not being distributed by http://www.alicecooper.com in Europe - it is being distributed by Universal Music.

I never said Universal weren't distributing it. I never said AC.com were distributing it. I simply said that 3 parties are involved in a purchase made from AC.com - the customer, the website, and Universal. Another basic fact that you seem to have a problem with.

[elnombre]

>There is no question that European orders are being handled by a third party. Why try to say otherwise?

Because you made it sound like they have only just become involved with this.

No I didn't. I never said anything of the sort.

Universal Music was ALWAYS the European distributor and that was ALWAYS made clear at http://www.alicecooper.com as well as press releases. Do you REALLY think that there is an army of people at http://www.alicecooper.com who are taking delivery of hundreds or thousands of copies of the box set from the factory, then packing them and writing out the delivery addresses on them, then taking them to the post office or any other delivery company and arranging for each single one to be delivered to those who have bought it?! That's what distributors are for. It's not the job of an artist's web - site, so do try and be realistic about this.

I'm well aware of how album distribution works, thanks, and it's completely irrelevant to the point that AC.com has official link buttons directing to pages where the offer is ineligible and gives no indication of this.

By the way, plenty of artists have people who handle orders directly, especially for limited quantity items like boxsets, so please stop being patronising if you can help it.

I don't think its beyond the realms of possibility that a small warehouse and a small team could handle domestic-only distribution of a limited quantity box set. But then, I wasn't aware that 'hundreds of thousands' of copies of Old School were being manufactured! Not so limited edition after all, eh? Or are you the one who's exaggerating?

[elnombre]

> could you point me to one of those instances on the AC.com pre-order page?

Yes. Go to http://alicecooper.com/alice-cooper-box ... rest-world and hold your cursor over the link that says "Great Britain / United Kingdom / Europe" and see what happens.

So in other words, no, nowhere does it state that orders placed for Europe are handled through Universals online store, nowhere does it say that European orders are ineligible for the offer, and customers are redirected without notice to make their purchase through an external site.

You say that even the US orders clicked on through AC.com are handled through another company, just like the European ones. So basically, there's no such thing as an 'order from AliceCooper.com'. None of the orders are made directly through them, and all are handled and distributed by other parties, correct?

All the more reason then that the text 'BONUS DOWNLOAD: Included with each Old School Box Set Order from AliceCooper.com' is confusing and misleading.

>If you're suggesting that fans should freely 'obtain' music that many were perfectly willing to pay for, well, that's a sad state of affairs.

I'm not suggesting anything like that at all, so try and avoid putting words in my mouth, if you possibly can. You wrote: "Fans from the rest of the world can't hear them for love or money" which (unfortunately) is false.

I said 'If you're suggesting', besides which my definition of fan doesn't stretch to those who steal their music. If you meant something else, by all means, I'm listening.


We can argue semantics, tenses and parties all day, but the fact remains the pre-order page on AC.com as it stands is misleading and should be fixed. It is AliceCooper.com's responsibility to make their terms of sale clear. Customers should not have to dig through press releases, small print, hyperlink text, forum posts, facebook messages or e-mails (which many will not have received) in order to know the full facts of their purchase. End of story.