Alice too modest ?

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While Heaven Wept
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Re: Alice too modest ?

Post by While Heaven Wept » Tue Dec 21, 2010 8:46 pm

Flash wrote:
RemarkablyInsincere wrote:
Flash wrote: But you could argue that in 1975 Alice Cooper the artist just lost all the other members except the vocalist. So from 1975 onwards the band transformed to a solo artist, and Wagner, Hunter etc. were no official members of the Alice Cooper the artist.
I think if Alice the solo artist had a bigger impact than Alice Cooper the band, we wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place. It's quite relevant that Alice Cooper achieved super stardom as a band. I think we all understand that if the original band broke up after "Easy Action" and Alice's solo career began with "Love It To Death" then he'd be being inducted as a solo artist.

On the bright side, as I pointed out previously, by denoting that they're inducting "Alice Cooper band" instead of just "Alice Cooper", the RARHOF has left the door open to induct Alice Cooper the solo artist at some point in the future.

I'm fairly surprised there are those that seem to have a problem with the original band being inducted instead of Alice alone. From what I've read, Alice clearly doesn't have a problem with it, so why should anyone else?
No no, of course I want the original band to be inducted. But I just wonder why they are using the name "Alice Cooper Band". Has that name been used as a official name at all?
I don't really see what it is you don't understand about it.... they are simply inducting the band and so it makes sense to stipulate that fact.

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Re: Alice too modest ?

Post by A_MichaelUK » Tue Dec 21, 2010 8:47 pm

>It would certainly be a great idea all these different Alice Cooper sections in the record store.

Wouldn't that make it harder to find stuff, or am I missing some sarcasm?

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Re: Alice too modest ?

Post by While Heaven Wept » Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:21 pm

A_MichaelUK wrote:>It would certainly be a great idea all these different Alice Cooper sections in the record store.

Wouldn't that make it harder to find stuff, or am I missing some sarcasm?
and while they're at it.... they should have 4 different Black Sabbath sections in the record stores for all the different lineups.

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Re: Alice too modest ?

Post by Jason » Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:47 pm

While Heaven Wept wrote:
A_MichaelUK wrote:>It would certainly be a great idea all these different Alice Cooper sections in the record store.

Wouldn't that make it harder to find stuff, or am I missing some sarcasm?
and while they're at it.... they should have 4 different Black Sabbath sections in the record stores for all the different lineups.

And what about Deep Purple? They've had 4 guitarists, 3 vocalists, 3 bassists, 2 keyboard players and the same drummer through the whole thing!

I think Alice has always been a modest guy, he's never been one to brag, or be arrogant about achievements. He can acknowledge these things without having his head swell up.

His quote about the original band stuff and his stuff he did after, he's just being honest.

Somebody else mentioned that his continuing on kept that legacy alive, which is indeed true, and I do think a lot of his solo stuff is excellent. But it's a double sided coin, the success and reputation built on the band albums and shows provided the plateau for him to continue on.

Not a news flash, we all know this but it works both ways, can't have one without the other!
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Re: Alice too modest ?

Post by recoop » Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:38 pm

Having read all these posts..I don't think Alice is too modest.. I just think he is, and has always been, a master of the dark? art of Public Relations..he seems to always know the right thing to say and do(and it might also be the truth)
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Re: Alice too modest ?

Post by FREEZIN » Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:18 pm

For the original groups tour, the band should focus on the music they made together as a group. This include all the music from the past, along with any new songs they've created together for the new album. However, I do agree it'd be nice to see them cover some solo music as well (not just from Alice, but from each artists personal collection). This would be a simple way to show respect for each other as musicians. Maybe only 1 or 2 songs from each artist, that way the show is still an homage to the original lineup.
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Re: Alice too modest ?

Post by Gunner » Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:32 am

If it weren't for Alice himself constantly working (and in the the last few years, almost relentlessly!!) on tours, being 'promoted' on game shows, chat shows, in interviews - everywhere basically, this induction would never have happened and we should all know that from how long it has taken. He is right of course, that the band created Alice Cooper, but he IS too modest and the other guys in the band (apart from Dennis maybe) will never agree.

Incidentally, Alice doesn't neccessarily say the 'right' thing (as in truth), but the 'good' thing as a human being!!

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Re: Alice too modest ?

Post by RemarkablyInsincere » Thu Dec 30, 2010 5:04 pm

If it weren't for Alice himself constantly working (and in the the last few years, almost relentlessly!!) on tours, being 'promoted' on game shows, chat shows, in interviews - everywhere basically, this induction would never have happened and we should all know that from how long it has taken.
As I've stated before, many bands have been inducted that have been inactive for years if not decades so I don't think any of us can say for sure how big of a factor that was. However, Alice Cooper remaining an active artist for 35 years onwards after the original band gives the name stature that very few of their peers achieved and made it all the more silly for him/them not to be inducted.

Still, I prefer to think that the impact and influence of Alice Cooper was just so big that they had to eventually been inducted no matter what.

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Re: Alice too modest ?

Post by GNDM » Thu Dec 30, 2010 6:57 pm

lol
Gunner - It is just killing you that YOUR Alice Cooper isn't being inducted, isn't it? Why not let all the hatred out - you will feel better.

:evil:

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Re: Alice too modest ?

Post by Toronto Bob » Thu Dec 30, 2010 9:51 pm

Alice is handling the induction properly. Full marks, not too modest, just giving credit where it's due. No doubt Alice's frequent touring/recording has kept the name alive but HoF honurs ain't because of albums like Dragontown or Dirty Diamonds.

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Re: Alice too modest ?

Post by kevinuk81 » Sat Jan 01, 2011 2:54 pm

Obviously not, the induction is for the group, not Alice individually, which those 2 albums are.
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Re: Alice too modest ?

Post by Gunner » Tue Jan 04, 2011 12:14 pm

Gunner - It is just killing you that YOUR Alice Cooper isn't being inducted, isn't it? Why not let all the hatred out - you will feel better.
No, I don't have an 'Alice Cooper', Alice Cooper's career started in 1967/68 and is still going, the early stages were a band. Like I say - and as you will discover the rest of the world concur with - including all records stores whether they be physical or virtual!
Last edited by Gunner on Tue Jan 04, 2011 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Alice too modest ?

Post by Gunner » Tue Jan 04, 2011 12:15 pm

The band need to thank Alice for keeping this whole thing going and giving them recognition.

If most of you think there is or should be a distinction between Alice Cooper up to 1974 and Alice Cooper from 1975 to now, then there should be two seperate inductions in my opinion, because both acts should be in the RRHOF. However, if we are to keep it sensible, the the award should got to Alice Cooper's entire career including the ACG era and beyond with breakthrough album and tour WTMN etc.

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Re: Alice too modest ?

Post by Gunner » Tue Jan 04, 2011 12:28 pm

Andy wrote: His quote about the original band stuff and his stuff he did after, he's just being honest.

I agree, he is being honest, it all started with the incredible work the band did with Shep and Bob, and what followed would not have been possible without it. Nobody is disputing that. HOWEVER, what followed should NOT just be considered somewhat superfluous as it is being so, so far.

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Re: Alice too modest ?

Post by A_MichaelUK » Tue Jan 04, 2011 12:59 pm

>Andy wrote: His quote about the original band stuff and his stuff he did after, he's just being honest.

Which "Andy" are you referring to? I think it was pitkin88 who raised that point.

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Re: Alice too modest ?

Post by GNDM » Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:19 pm

Gunner wrote:The band need to thank Alice for keeping this whole thing going and giving them recognition.
So Gunner, do Neal, Dennis, and Michael need to thank Alice publicly....or would a note to you suffice? Perhaps you feel the HOF should make a distinction between Alice's entrance and those of the other 4 members? Maybe an asterisk beside his name or something? How about if Neal, Dennis, and Michael get on their knees at the induction and turn to Alice and chant - "We're not worthy." Would that make you feel better?
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Re: Alice too modest ?

Post by RemarkablyInsincere » Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:36 pm

Gunner wrote: If most of you think there is or should be a distinction between Alice Cooper up to 1974 and Alice Cooper from 1975 to now, then there should be two seperate inductions in my opinion, because both acts should be in the RRHOF.
That may very well happen, but it would then be on the merits of the material from "Welcome To My Nightmare" and after.
Gunner wrote: However, if we are to keep it sensible, the the award should got to Alice Cooper's entire career including the ACG era and beyond with breakthrough album and tour WTMN etc.
The Beatles broke up. They then went on to do solo projects. The Beatles were inducted as a band and then John Lennon, Paul McCartney and George Harrison were each inducted separately for their solo work.

The Alice Cooper situation is unique because the name did not appear to change even though it changed from a band to a solo act overnight. I'm not aware of an exactly similar situation where a band changed so abruptly in this manner after they'd reached superstar status.

Bands have evolved over time and then been left with one original member and a bunch of hired guns. Black Sabbath in the late 80s when Iommi was the only guy left, is one example. But look at which members were inducted as Black Sabbath. Guns 'n Roses essentially evolved into a solo act, but even there the members left gradually over time although they weren't actively working during the transition.

Still, these bands were always presented and marketed as bands, even if the financial arrangements clearly indicated otherwise. Alice Cooper, however, was a solo act from "Welcome To My Nightmare" onward and it was presented that way. The other players were not featured the same way the guys in the original band were. There is a clear delineation between Alice Cooper the band, and Alice Cooper the solo artist.

I would expect casual fans not to understand this, but not someone intimately familiar with the act and it's history as you supposedly are.
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Re: Alice too modest ?

Post by Jason » Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:49 pm

A_MichaelUK wrote:>Andy wrote: His quote about the original band stuff and his stuff he did after, he's just being honest.

Which "Andy" are you referring to? I think it was pitkin88 who raised that point.
Hey Andy, it was neither you or pitkin88 who said that, I did.

I said that because if you read what he said, it's a statement. It's his opinion, again for him to come out and say that, to me, strikes me as a very honest thing to say, that's all. I've never heard him say that before, mabye the band finally being inducted prompted him to think of that aspect of things once it was a reality.

Not trying to start anything Gunner. Was just posting my two cents. Just my impression of things.
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Re: Alice too modest ?

Post by A_MichaelUK » Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:11 pm

>Hey Andy, it was neither you or pitkin88 who said that, I did.

You're right (however, it was pitkin88 who first mentioned honesty in this thread).

>It's his opinion, again for him to come out and say that, to me, strikes me as a very honest thing to say, that's all.

I don't deny that.

> I've never heard him say that before, mabye the band finally being inducted prompted him to think of that aspect of things once it was a reality.

As I wrote earlier in the thread (in response to pitkin88), it's not that different from previous statements that Alice has made.

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