WTMN 2....

[WickedYoungMan]

yes and your opinion when asked what albums you and others thought were subpar was Goes To Hell and Lace just go back and read what you said instead of trying to backtrack.

No one was backtracking Steven. I said nothing different either, not sure what you're going on about.

[While Heaven Wept]

yes and your opinion when asked what albums you and others thought were subpar was Goes To Hell and Lace just go back and read what you said instead of trying to backtrack.

No one was backtracking Steven. I said nothing different either, not sure what you're going on about.

Steven, you have an annoying habit of misquoting or accusing people of saying things that they didnt. If WYM said anything of the like then just go back and quote the post so we can all see for ourselves.

[steven_crayn]

yes and your opinion when asked what albums you and others thought were subpar was Goes To Hell and Lace just go back and read what you said instead of trying to backtrack.

No one was backtracking Steven. I said nothing different either, not sure what you're going on about.

Steven, you have an annoying habit of misquoting or accusing people of saying things that they didnt. If WYM said anything of the like then just go back and quote the post so we can all see for ourselves.

Do not accuse me of misquoting people just because you get annoyed when you get your facts wrong.

If you read my question and the response

What subpar albums do you and these other people think Ezrin has done with Alice?

Goes To Hell & Lace and Whiskey. But I was speaking in general, such as some of his work with KISS (specifically "Music From The Elder,") David Gilmour's second solo album, and the last two Pink Floyd albums, for example, which general do not receive a lot of praise.

[pitkin88]

no it's not if the albums were subpar the production and songs would be no good, the production was as good as what had gone before and there were some great songs on those albums but the style was a bit different to what people had come to expect from Alice. I'm The Coolest and King Of The Silver Screen for example may have had too much humour for some narrow minds but there is no doubting how brilliant they and other songs Ezrin produced after Nightmare were. I Love America off DaDa for example is brilliant or do you think that is subpar?

There have been many great albums with sub par production.
The two New York Dolls albums and Johnny Thunders LAMF spring to mind. The production is not at fault on ACGTH more the songs are weak. LAW suffers from both weak songs and production. I remember someone using the term thin and
reedy which just about sums it up. I like Da Da a lot but the production is hardly stellar. I think Andy Michael in his fanzine likened one of Wagners solos as wet as a fart or something like that. ( it might be the one in No Mans Land ).

[Dannorama]

Enough, already! I am hoping that this new album - whatever it is named or what music it contains - is a rewarding experience.

How about anyone who wants to describe their feelings toward one or another past album start their own thread titled after that album?

Until we actually HEAR this new album, save your conjecture on it's content.

[pitkin88]

Enough, already! I am hoping that this new album - whatever it is named or what music it contains - is a rewarding experience.

How about anyone who wants to describe their feelings toward one or another past album start their own thread titled after that album?

Until we actually HEAR this new album, save your conjecture on it's content.

Yes let's stifle all conversation.

[WickedYoungMan]

Do not accuse me of misquoting people just because you get annoyed when you get your facts wrong.

If you read my question and the response

I don't see where I "backtracked."

[While Heaven Wept]

Steven, you can't thrown phrases like 'backtracked' around without referring to where they have back-tracked?! I have re-read WYM's posts and don't find any evidence of back tracking.

And exactly what facts have i got wrong?

[steven_crayn]

wym said he didn't say those albums were subpar when he clearly did as you can see from my question and his answer

[WickedYoungMan]

wym said he didn't say those albums were subpar

Steven, you asked me what albums I and these "other people" thought were subpar. I gave you two albums. I never once denied saying that (and in fact repeated it in the same post that you claimed I was "backtracking" on!) I'm not really sure what it is you're going on about.

[steven_crayn]

no I asked what albums do YOU and these others consider subpar and your answer to that question was the 2 albums in question, you didn't in the initial answer to the question differentiate between yourself and these "others".

[Billie1966]

WOW!! Did we get off track here or what! Can we please move on.

Danny~

[steven_crayn]

no it's not if the albums were subpar the production and songs would be no good, the production was as good as what had gone before and there were some great songs on those albums but the style was a bit different to what people had come to expect from Alice. I'm The Coolest and King Of The Silver Screen for example may have had too much humour for some narrow minds but there is no doubting how brilliant they and other songs Ezrin produced after Nightmare were. I Love America off DaDa for example is brilliant or do you think that is subpar?

There have been many great albums with sub par production.
The two New York Dolls albums and Johnny Thunders LAMF spring to mind. The production is not at fault on ACGTH more the songs are weak. LAW suffers from both weak songs and production. I remember someone using the term thin and
reedy which just about sums it up. I like Da Da a lot but the production is hardly stellar. I think Andy Michael in his fanzine likened one of Wagners solos as wet as a fart or something like that. ( it might be the one in No Mans Land ).

if you listen to the awesome My God you should hear the production on that is as good as anything Alice has done so I can't see how you can criticise Lace from a production angle, the album wasn't as heavy as previous Cooper classics but does that make it a bad album? I Never Wrote Those Songs is a great ballad and there is nothing wrong with No More Love At Your Conveinience, King Of The Silver Screen or It's Hot Tonight, yes not a rock album as such and not as good as Nightmare etc... but not a total write off. I also think DaDa has some of Dick Wagners finest playing such as on Pass The Gun Around and as for Goes To Hell that is a damn fine album not as good as Nightmare but still a fine work

[pitkin88]

" My God " ( horrible song aside ) could have been epic with the orchestration and it's not. Sounds like they rented the local vicars organ and recorded it. The sound on INWTS ( one of the worst songs he ever recorded ) is also lacking. It drifts up and down and meanders. It really doesn't sound like an Ezrin produced album ( no Ezrin trademarks ) or an Alice Cooper album ( maybe it should have been released as a Maurice Escargot album ala Chris Gaines ). If Alice had released this befor WTMN alarm bells would have been ringing. At the end of the day neither Alice nor Ezrin will be remembered for this unfocused mess.

I'm a big fan of Da Da ( Fresh Blood aside )but it sounds like it was done on a shoestring budget. Drum machines replace live drums. I am sure that Wagner will not be remembered for his playing here as few have heard this album. Weren't all three of them seriously f'ed up on various intoxicants?

If Ezrin was looking for a gig and they asked him for a resume ( that you could listen to )do you seriously thing these two offerings are amongst his best works?

[Shoesalesman]

I'm a big fan of Da Da ( Fresh Blood aside )but it sounds like it was done on a shoestring budget. Drum machines replace live drums.

Wasn't it Alice's desire (maybe Bob Ezrin's too) to experiment with electronics and/or computer generated music for this album, not necessarily related to budget? As a side note I think four of the nine album tracks had a live drummer... to some degree.

[pitkin88]

I'm a big fan of Da Da ( Fresh Blood aside )but it sounds like it was done on a shoestring budget. Drum machines replace live drums.

Wasn't it Alice's desire (maybe Bob Ezrin's too) to experiment with electronics and/or computer generated music for this album, not necessarily related to budget? As a side note I think four of the nine album tracks had a live drummer... to some degree.

Yes. I think Ezrin had one of the first Fairlight synths or something akin to it and wanted to try it out. I'm guessing budget was an issue as Warner did not behind this in any shape or form. I don't believe there were any ads in the music press at that time. You are right about there being some live drums also.

[A_MichaelUK]

>I'm guessing budget was an issue as Warner did not behind this in any shape or form.

Well, you got it right in your first sentence in that Ezrin had a certain piece of equipment he wanted to work with, but you contradict that with your second sentence.

[pitkin88]

>I'm guessing budget was an issue as Warner did not behind this in any shape or form.

Well, you got it right in your first sentence in that Ezrin had a certain piece of equipment he wanted to work with, but you contradict that with your second sentence.

Explain.

[A_MichaelUK]

>xplain.

You start by saying "Ezrin had one of the first Fairlight synths or something akin to it and wanted to try it out." Then you follow that up with the extract I quoted in my last post. They are two separate statements which you have not connected, therefore they are contradictory.

[shock rock]

Anyone know (aside from 3 tracks),when Nightmare 2 will be recorded??