ACG v anybody else!

[Vlad the Impala]

I'm sure that this has probably been done elsewhere on the forum, but a cursory peruse didn't throw it up, so ...

The more that I've been listening to the old ACG the more I believe that NOBODY else comes anywhere near them. I'm not a fan of screeching guitars and wailing solos and it just seems to me that on recent albums/tours that's been very much to the fore. Although Wagner and Hunter kept pretty much to the 'studio sound' I fear that more recent musicians seem to want to be more of an individual rather than part of a band. I like the songs as they were written and initially recorded, not souped up on stage by an axe-hero or two. Maybe this is one reason why - until recently - I've avoided most boots and radio shows (although I have to admit that one or two of these are excellent, not only in quality but also in the way that the music itself is rendered)

I know that the curent band are very popular and I know that they are very accomplished musicians in their own right - I'm not criticising them for that, it's just that I would prefer to hear the songs as they were made, and not occasionally have to wait a few seconds before I can recognise a song either through a different intro or a deafening cacophony. I know that this isn't for everyone - nobody wants to go to a gig and hear the songs performed in exactly the same way each time; I just want them a little truer to their origins. Maybe I'm just getting old!

Yes, I know it's a controversial point, but I'd like to know what the populace feels.

[Dons tin hat and waits for expected storm of abuse! ]

[A_MichaelUK]

>not occasionally have to wait a few seconds before I can recognise a song either through a different intro

When did that happen?

[Shoesalesman]

Not to pounce on the topic or you, Vlad, but here's my two cents, Canadian...

I think both old and new Alice offers something to the disposable music scene that's sadly offered today, yes even the very old Coop tunes that have a hiss in the background. I would take only one Alice tune, new or old, over ANYTHING that's mass produced in a sterile petri dish in the 'business' studio today. Shame on these guys!

Alice has surrounded himself with classy musicians over the years and these folks have the chops to play anything that would make Alice's music go over in style. They seem to add the individual style that, when combined, sounds and tastes like mother's milk. Even the ACG had great individual musicians that, together, made magic.

Regarding the way the old tunes are played, I know this is an old video but on The Nightmare Returns I'm Eighteen has a different verse signature on the guitars (at the beginning where Alice is leaning on the crutch) than what I was used to, more of a laid back vibe. I think every once in a while Alice gives an old tune a new spin/polish that keeps it new and interesting.

Like Nurse Rozetta, for an example. I saw NR on youtube from the recent UK tour and it sounded fantastic even though it was done differently (or so it seemed to me).

[mattcoddington]

Regarding the way the old tunes are played, I know this is an old video but on The Nightmare Returns I'm Eighteen has a different verse signature on the guitars (at the beginning where Alice is leaning on the crutch) than what I was used to, more of a laid back vibe.

but you still know what song it is. vlad stated that some songs were changed so much that he couldn't even recognize them.

if one wants to hear the songs 'as they were made' then feel free to stay at home and listen to the cds.

[A_MichaelUK]

> it was done differently (or so it seemed to me).

The main difference was the length of the song, I think, rather than a drastic change in the arrangement of it.

[Shoesalesman]

> it was done differently (or so it seemed to me).

The main difference was the length of the song, I think, rather than a drastic change in the arrangement of it.

There was something in the way the guitars were played together that gave Nurse Rozetta a different tone, like there was an added harmony (I apologize to the guitar folks if I'm flubbing up the terminology here).

[A_MichaelUK]

>There was something in the way the guitars were played together that gave Nurse Rozetta a different tone, like there was an added harmony (I apologize to the guitar folks if I'm flubbing up the terminology here).

That's all very possible, but again, nothing drastic.

[pitkin88]

Regarding the way the old tunes are played, I know this is an old video but on The Nightmare Returns I'm Eighteen has a different verse signature on the guitars (at the beginning where Alice is leaning on the crutch) than what I was used to, more of a laid back vibe.

but you still know what song it is. vlad stated that some songs were changed so much that he couldn't even recognize them.

if one wants to hear the songs 'as they were made' then feel free to stay at home and listen to the cds.

I think he said it took him a few seconds to recognize them. I agree with what you are saying about if you want the song to sound like the vinyl/cd. You are never going to get that. I do hate hearing the elongated live
School's Out mind.

[A_MichaelUK]

>I think he said it took him a few seconds to recognize them.

He surely doesn't need that long - again, there are no drastic changes to the introductions or any parts of the songs, except, in some cases, in the length of the songs. In case anyone is interested or unaware of it, Alice wanted the songs on the 2003 tour to be performed as closely as possible to the original arrangements and to the original recordings, which is partly why, I think, he called it " The Bare Bones Tour."

[Jumping Jack]

Oh no, I fully agree with every word Andy just posted, LOL!!! Must be the holiday cheer.

With all due props to the original group for their song writing and developing the shtick and stage show, IMHO the current band is far better live than the original group. They are more accomplished players, are always sober and professional, have better equipment, are far more approachable, and interact well with the fans. Many of the shows back in the day were musically spotty and far more reliant on style over substance, spectacle over tight performance.

[pitkin88]

Oh no, I fully agree with every word Andy just posted, LOL!!! Must be the holiday cheer.

With all due props to the original group for their song writing and developing the shtick and stage show, IMHO the current band is far better live than the original group. They are more accomplished players, are always sober and professional, have better equipment, are far more approachable, and interact well with the fans. Many of the shows back in the day were musically spotty and far more reliant on style over substance, spectacle over tight performance.

'
I guess Alice is sober now is that what you mean? Did you see the ACG live? Did you try and meet them and couldn't?
Would you seriously rather see a show from today rather than a show from 71-73?

I prefer griity anyday over slick. Today's back up band have a very hard time playing Neal and Dennis' parst that's for sure. Musicianship doesn't always equal soul and the best musicians don't always make the best music.

[Shoesalesman]

I prefer griity anyday over slick. Today's back up band have a very hard time playing Neal and Dennis' parst that's for sure. Musicianship doesn't always equal soul and the best musicians don't always make the best music.

Respecting your opinion, I disagree. I think Alice's current line up (and I'm referring to the last few tours as I've not seen TOD yet) try hard to do their OWN parts to the older songs, not Michael's or Neal's or whomever. I certainly don't want to see Chuck trying to be Dennis or only doing the things Dennis would do in the songs. That would disrespect Dennis and equally disrespect Chuck's own chops. They play their own versions which keeps the old songs from getting.. well, old.

ACG has their place and so does Alice's other musicians; both great for their time, place and culture.

[revinkevin]

I have been a fan since the early 70's and I rather see Kerri Kelli, Damon Johnson or Ryan Roxie. They are smoking musicians with a great attitude and they show up ready to perform the best show they can. I loved the old band, but they had some baggage and they had to bring in a Mick Mashbir (sp) to fill in the gaps or have Wagner and Hunter or Rick Deringer show up in the studio. I really don't think that would happen with the current group of players.

[Malchik]

I have been a fan since the early 70's and I rather see Kerri Kelli, Damon Johnson or Ryan Roxie. They are smoking musicians with a great attitude and they show up ready to perform the best show they can. I loved the old band, but they had some baggage and they had to bring in a Mick Mashbir (sp) to fill in the gaps or have Wagner and Hunter or Rick Deringer show up in the studio. I really don't think that would happen with the current group of players.

Now that's not really fare rev. The older recordings had a much younger batch of musicians in the studio. The ACG of today are much more weathered individuals who have had decades to perfect their art. Mick, Derringer, Wag, etc were at the time (and of course today) guitar masters in their field and called in to add their talents to provide a hook or catch needed for a song. This was common practice for the best of musicians and still is today. I would never hold that against them as artists. Alice’s very competent musicians today could also sometime use outside musicians talents for a song. As for outside talents to fill in for Buxton’s, um, laps... even Alice had his low points in his career where substance affected his performance.

Would I like to see ACG reform? Yes, yes I would. I'd like to see them on stage. However I do not want to see them as a strictly “Best Of” band like the later formed Black Sabbath. Alice’s band today is great for that. Bones from the Yard and Sexual Savior were two great tongues in cheek albums. I heard a lot of humor and attitude I remember from the classic days. I'd like to see collaboration and a new album. But this is just a fanboy's dream.

Would an ACG reformation work? I don't know. I can't tell you. The boys are very different people now. Alice, I'm sure, would be very protective of his franchise he has built. Anything on this subject from my end would be speculation.

[Vlad the Impala]

Good to see that my post is stirring up a bit of thought. Not intended to polarise people - I never expected that anyway - but just to gauge feelings and preferences.

The comment about different intros wasn't a reference to lots of songs, just the odd one or two, an example being the intro to Public Animal #9 as performed live. I have to agree with pitkin88 about the overlong School's Out which has always irritated me.

"Back when ah were nobbut a lad" and learning about music in the late 1960s/early 1970s, the ACG was the one band in the whole world that I most wanted to see; of course, I never did, so now I'm making up for it every time AC tours on this side of the Pond. It's worth adding that I've now seen the new band on the last 5 tours and enjoyed them all. As to a reformation, I too doubt that it would work, but it would be nice to have one definitive gig with as many of the old band together as poss, maybe with guest appearances by the likes of Wagner and Hunter. Now THAT I'd like to see!

[Jumping Jack]

Answers For Pitkin:

I guess Alice is sober now is that what you mean?

No, I meant what I said, the current band does not drink or drug to the point where it affects their performance.

Did you see the ACG live?

Yes I did.

Did you try and meet them and couldn't?

Rock stars in the 70s acted much differently than entertainers in 2009, although many old timers still think they are rock stars and won't meet fans without being paid. While Coop will take the money if you are willing to hand it over, he can be met other ways, and the band is easy enough to meet at the bus.

Would you seriously rather see a show from today rather than a show from 71-73?

Absolutely. Some of those 70s shows were a real mess. There are CDs and DVDs from both eras so people can judge for themselves. Is there a Coop version of "Live at Leeds" or "Brussels 73" documenting how great they were live? Musically the ACG was better in the studio. In concert they were about the spectacle and being outrageous. I am more about the music than the theatrics. Just my opinion, yours may be different and equally valid which I respect.


The real question that hasn't been asked is given the talent in the current line up what type of studio CD could they come up with if they really worked at it and staked their futures on it like the early 70s bands? What if they dropped the Halloween crutch and focused on a truly hard rocking album. Many of Coop's biggest hits (SO, 18, NMMNG, Wheels, Poison) had nothing to do with Halloween, and everything to due with great riffs.

[A_MichaelUK]

>The comment about different intros wasn't a reference to lots of songs, just the odd one or two,

Thanks for the clarification, but you did make it sound like you found it to be a regular problem.

> an example being the intro to Public Animal #9 as performed live.

I would have to listen to it again, as I don't remember it being particularly different.

[WickedYoungMan]

Does anyone know if one of the band members have been appointed the "musical director?"

[Dave Conway]

Good thread.

There is no right or wrong answer of course. People ask similar questions in sport, i.e. could Tyson have beaten Ali, would Italy of 2006 have been able to beat Brazil on 1970 etc, etc.

I also agree that its not always the best musicions who make the best music. However, the current band given brilliant music and bags of personality in performance. Best of both worlds IMO.

[steven_crayn]

Good to see that my post is stirring up a bit of thought. Not intended to polarise people - I never expected that anyway - but just to gauge feelings and preferences.

The comment about different intros wasn't a reference to lots of songs, just the odd one or two, an example being the intro to Public Animal #9 as performed live. I have to agree with pitkin88 about the overlong School's Out which has always irritated me.

"Back when ah were nobbut a lad" and learning about music in the late 1960s/early 1970s, the ACG was the one band in the whole world that I most wanted to see; of course, I never did, so now I'm making up for it every time AC tours on this side of the Pond. It's worth adding that I've now seen the new band on the last 5 tours and enjoyed them all. As to a reformation, I too doubt that it would work, but it would be nice to have one definitive gig with as many of the old band together as poss, maybe with guest appearances by the likes of Wagner and Hunter. Now THAT I'd like to see!

Even if you listen to bootlegs from ACG you will hear Public Animal intro sounded different to the record by virtue of the fact the jazz keyboard intro was not played.

And for anyone daring to suggest the ACG were not accomplished musicians, you are seriously deluded!