Is there room for different types of fans? (long & boring)

Anything Alice Cooper or AC band related goes here

Moderators: Devon, Gorehound, Si, SickThings, Shoesalesman

User avatar
mattcoddington
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 938
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2008 8:28 pm
Contact:

Re: Is there room for different types of fans? (long & boring)

Post by mattcoddington » Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:34 pm

WickedYoungMan wrote:Exactly. The truth is that Andy usually hitches a ride on the semi that hauls the stage pieces around!
i was under the impression that andy drove the truck?

pitkin88
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 4478
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:25 am
Location: calif

Re: Is there room for different types of fans? (long & boring)

Post by pitkin88 » Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:34 pm

Si wrote:
pitkin88 wrote:
Si wrote: Debate??? You can't TAKE a debate. That's the point! Every time someone calls you on something you run away, or spout the same bullshit and unfounded accusations. You are CLUELESS! You didn`t know it was illegal to copy CD's!!!

It's about time you grew a set. Usually you are passive.
Usually I try and stay polite and be helpful, even when someone is causing a problem. I've pretty much lost my patience with you and your idiotic rubbish.
pitkin88 wrote: I guess the backstage and tour bus stuff hurts bad.
Why would it hurt. It's completely unfounded twaddle from someone who knows nothing.
pitkin88 wrote: When have I run from anyone here?. I don't have the time to sift through every line of AM's posts. The bugger wears you down. I have stated my position CLEARLY I don't know how many times but it doesn't sink in. Too much waiting out in the rain for shows eh? Rots the brain.
Oh, your position is clear. You are right, everyone else is wrong. When someone corrects you on something it becomes a big fight. In the end you resort to petty insults, as above.
I pity you.


You are WRONG. The petty insulting started with AM. He is constantly telling people their posts are IDIOTIC. If it makes you and Andy happy you can ban me.

User avatar
Si
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 4363
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 5:47 am
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Is there room for different types of fans? (long & boring)

Post by Si » Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:34 pm

Well you do seem to be trying your hardest to GET banned.

A_MichaelUK
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 5383
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:35 pm

Re: Is there room for different types of fans? (long & boring)

Post by A_MichaelUK » Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:39 pm

>To Glam Princess. AM likes to pick apart in the most minute detail posts that are or appear to be against Alice/Alice's mgmt et al.

Absolutely false. There are many criticisms that I don't challenge because I happen to agree with them.

> He comes across as a smug know it all.

That's true, but that's not my problem.

>I pretty much get into it with him ( though Si has now jumped onboard )and pretty much him alone.

I'm so honoured.

>On the other hand he has pissed off many here with the " WRONG " and" IDIOTIC " stuff

That's their problem. You omit to mention that I only take that approach well into a debate not at the start. If I did it indiscriminately or for no reason, you'd have a point.

>( Si seems to have followed this too perhaps in the attempt to goad me so he can feel justified in banning me ).

Hold on. Who was it that hurled the first derogatory comment? It wasn't Si, so it must have been you then, which makes you a liar.

>It is hard to have a serious debate when you get insults.

If you think those are "insults", stick around.

>When someone gets insulted they often result in hurling back insults

When were you insulted? When and if you find examples, make sure you provide the context as well.

glamprincess
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 757
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 1:24 am
Location: Canada

Re: Is there room for different types of fans? (long & boring)

Post by glamprincess » Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:56 pm

pitkin88 wrote:To Glam Princess. AM likes to pick apart in the most minute detail posts that are or appear to be against Alice/Alice's mgmt et al. He comes across as a smug know it all. I pretty much get into it with him ( though Si has now jumped onboard )and pretty much him alone. On the other hand he has pissed off many here with the " WRONG " and
" IDIOTIC " stuff ( Si seems to have followed this too perhaps in the attempt to goad me so he can feel justified in banning me ). It is hard to have a serious debate when you get insults. When someone gets insulted they often result in hurling back insults.
Andy just wants to correct people when they make innaccurate statements. This site is an important source of information for Alice Cooper fans from all over the world and it's therefore important that information is both corrected and factual.

When he goes through their posts in greater detail, it's because usually the statements posted by that person are misleading and filled with false assumptions and innuendos. You would not believe how many people post assumptions as if they are facts. Andy is a very knowledgeable Alice Cooper fan and he is more aware of the facts than almost anybody. He is not "picking apart" a post to be smug or to show off. Andy is just ensuring that information is factual and accurate because this website is such an important source of information for so many fans. People are too sensitive about having their statements corrected.

Andy does know members of the Alice camp and that's why he doesn't enjoy when false perceptions about them are posted like they are facts. For example, the posts about the Alice camp not controlling enough of the master tapes was a clear case of the Alice camp being unfairly maligned.

I don't believe that Si is trying to goad you into being banned. I have known Si for a long time on these forums and he tends to be a very fair and reasonable moderator. There have been moderators on other sites that have deleted posts because it was an opinion that opposed their own. I have never known Si to do such a thing. And he does not want to ban anyone as there have been people who have posted horribly inflammatory posts and Si has actually been quite tolerant.

You make it sound like Si and Andy have started the insults but if you read the entire two threads, you will see that that was not really the case. For example, one person insulted Andy early on and said he had OCD. Most of the time, Andy and Si have just questioned people and asked for backup to their statements. Those requests have been repeatedly ignored. That's not an attack. It's just a desire to keep information factual and get people to back up their statements if they are going to try to present false arguements.

WickedYoungMan
Goat Herder
Goat Herder
Posts: 1406
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 11:59 am
Location: Still Outside Your Bedroom Window

Re: Is there room for different types of fans? (long & boring)

Post by WickedYoungMan » Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:03 pm

GailsFriend wrote:I feel bad for Robbie, the new guy, who just posted how shocked he was at all the venom people are spitting at each other here.
He's obviously new if he finds this shocking!
Me = Winning

User avatar
recoop
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 1886
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 9:58 pm
Location: York, England

Re: Is there room for different types of fans? (long & boring)

Post by recoop » Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:09 pm

Yes to the original question.

From a neutral standpoint(no feet in either camp) I feel that things have been getting overheated on both sides..comments to do with someone having ocd on one side and comments re if you think thats an insult hang around..we all get triggered by other peoples opinions..best to count to ten/think of Alice..i.e. what ever strategy works and stops people and their opinions being insulted..I suppose it least it shows Alice fans are passionate (no I'm not going to compare them to Genesis fans)

Its funny some of the people arguing with each other have provided me with helpful information at times...I'm sure we can all avoid getting banned/banning anyone if we try.Happy Christmas to all. Thanks for 2009.

glamprincess
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 757
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 1:24 am
Location: Canada

Re: Is there room for different types of fans? (long & boring)

Post by glamprincess » Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:57 pm

recoop wrote:at least it shows Alice fans are passionate (no I'm not going to compare them to Genesis fans)
:rotfl: :rotfl: Very funny Recoop!

Actually, I think Alice fans are much more passionate than Genesis fans :rotfl: ......[Just kidding!]

Toronto Bob
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 974
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2005 3:01 am
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: Is there room for different types of fans? (long & boring)

Post by Toronto Bob » Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:48 pm

Andy just wants to correct people when they make innaccurate statements. This site is an important source of information for Alice Cooper fans from all over the world and it's therefore important that information is both corrected and factual.
That just isn't accurate GP, AMichael_UK likes to pick fights. Look at his repsonse to many of my posts and you'll see.

pitkin88
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 4478
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:25 am
Location: calif

Re: Is there room for different types of fans? (long & boring)

Post by pitkin88 » Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:52 pm

Si wrote:Well you do seem to be trying your hardest to GET banned.

Maybe I'm doing something RIGHT then. I can't even go away to Disney for a few days without you accusing me of running away. I'll give you two weeks notice next time.

Conclusion: Is there room for different types of fans?
Yes there is. The WRONG and the RIGHT ones. Feel free to pick what camp you are in.

A_MichaelUK
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 5383
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:35 pm

Re: Is there room for different types of fans? (long & boring)

Post by A_MichaelUK » Wed Dec 23, 2009 10:34 am

>AMichael_UK likes to pick fights. Look at his repsonse to many of my posts and you'll see.

No, I’ll tell you what I do. If anyone says something that is false, I will question it, just as if someone says something that he or she is unwilling or unable to offer evidence for, I will also question it. Only a coward will think that means I like “to pick fights”.

Toronto Bob
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 974
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2005 3:01 am
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: Is there room for different types of fans? (long & boring)

Post by Toronto Bob » Wed Dec 23, 2009 2:21 pm

A_MichaelUK wrote:>AMichael_UK likes to pick fights. Look at his repsonse to many of my posts and you'll see.

No, I’ll tell you what I do. If anyone says something that is false, I will question it, just as if someone says something that he or she is unwilling or unable to offer evidence for, I will also question it. Only a coward will think that means I like “to pick fights”.
So me saying that the sonic differences between the original SO and Killer cds aren't significant enough for a fan on a budget to rush out and buy them is wrong? Me stating that the truncated versions on Prime Cuts leave me wanting is wrong? Me saying that The Life and Crimes box set was 50% great and 50% redundant was wrong? Are these things that need to be corrected, or are these things that you chose to pick fights and antagonize, largely due to the fact that I laid the blame of the unsatisfactory way that archival material has been released (amount and the glacial pace), at Alice's feet.
Whether due to lack of interest on his part, contractual bondage or right signed away due to lack of foresight.
That bugged you from awhile back, so now everything I type is open season by you to contradict in an extremely negative, pedantic, condescending way.

And that's the truth.

A_MichaelUK
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 5383
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:35 pm

Re: Is there room for different types of fans? (long & boring)

Post by A_MichaelUK » Wed Dec 23, 2009 3:07 pm

So me saying that the sonic differences between the original SO and Killer cds aren't significant enough for a fan on a budget to rush out and buy them is wrong?

No! Who said it was?!

>Me stating that the truncated versions on Prime Cuts leave me wanting is wrong?

No! Who said it was?!

>Me saying that The Life and Crimes box set was 50% great and 50% redundant was wrong?

No! Who said it was?!

> Are these things that need to be corrected, or are these things that you chose to pick fights

Absolutely false. This is why you make yourself look foolish. The above examples are not subjects necessarily disagree with you on (there's nothing to agree or disagree with), but now, you claim I have attacked you on those subjects! This is what you don't seem to understand. How many times do I have to keep repeating that I don't care what your personal tastes are or if you happy with any particular project or not? The problem arises when you are given explanations for why certain projects ended up the way they did, because you're response it to say something really dumb like blame Alice and his management for things that are outside of their control. That's just ONE example.

>largely due to the fact that I laid the blame of the unsatisfactory way that archival material has been released (amount and the glacial pace), at Alice's feet.

That's exactly my point! Yet when the reality was pointed out to you (and not just be me), not only did you continue to repeat your claims and not only did you start making assertions as if they were facts, not only did you base your opinions on your perceptions, it was YOU who came back with beligerence because someone was challenging you, yet you have the nerve to complain about the replies you get!

>Whether due to lack of interest on his part, contractual bondage or right signed away due to lack of foresight.

Again, you are trying to cleverly change your position and are hoping that no - one will notice. You never said anything previously about "lack of foresight" - in fact, it had to be pointed out to you that many artists were in the same position. You also claimed previously that "contractual bondage" was not an issue, yet now you acknowledge it is a factor AS IF YOU JUST THOUGHT OF IT! You may have forgotten what was written in that thread from last year, but I haven't. All you did was maintain that it was Alice's fault and his management's fault. It's all there in the archives of this board, if you want to look for it.

>That bugged you from awhile back, so now everything I type is open season by you to contradict in an extremely negative, pedantic, condescending way.

No. The above response is what an overly - sensitive, somewhat pampered and immature person would give. You behave as if no - one has ever disagreed with you before and are not used to it. What is the alternative, then? Do you think it is fair (to everyone else that reads this stuff) that you be allowed to write stuff that is either false or is not challenged in any way? I'm asking you to answer this quite serious question.

Toronto Bob
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 974
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2005 3:01 am
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: Is there room for different types of fans? (long & boring)

Post by Toronto Bob » Wed Dec 23, 2009 6:37 pm

Typical AMichael_UK - selective memory, selective quotations.

I maintained that Alice was to blame for any and all of these shortcomings because of my previously stated reasons, as you say it's all there - go and look.

And you did jump on me regards to the re-masters, mind you some of yours and my comments had been removed so I'm not sure what evidence is left. I also remember say how it's odd that you never start a thread only wait in the weeds until some posts something that you can correct them on, some little point, a mistated fact or whatever.

pitkin88
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 4478
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:25 am
Location: calif

Re: Is there room for different types of fans? (long & boring)

Post by pitkin88 » Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:13 pm

In defense of Andy, I doubt he would need to start a thread as Glam Princess pointed out he pretty much knows everything about Alice and his management. Please feel free correct me If I'm wrong Andy. I would be very interested to know what stuff he would like to know If there is anything.

A_MichaelUK
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 5383
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:35 pm

Re: Is there room for different types of fans? (long & boring)

Post by A_MichaelUK » Wed Dec 23, 2009 9:38 pm

>Typical AMichael_UK - selective memory, selective quotations.

Not at all. It's all in the archives.

>I maintained that Alice was to blame for any and all of these shortcomings

Yes and that what was disagreed with. It was YOU who refused to accept the disagreement. However, you just contradicted yourself AGAIN - on the old thread, you blamed Alice, in your previous post in this thread, you cite "contractual bondage or right signed away due to lack of foresight" but now you're back to blaming Alice again. I don't want to do you a disservice - if I've misunderstood your intentions, then I have to ask you to make them clear. However, you write well and are articulate, which leads me to think that it's not a case of you not being clear, but a case of you being deluded and stubborn.

>And you did jump on me regards to the re-masters,

Only because of your responses which were based on the fact that you did not like being asked for evidence and examples.

> mind you some of yours and my comments had been removed so I'm not sure what evidence is left.

Maybe the moderators can find them if they put in a little effort.

>I also remember say how it's odd that you never start a thread only wait in the weeds until some posts something that you can correct them on, some little point, a mistated fact or whatever.

That's correct. Who says I'm here to start threads anyway? Also, in my previous post, I asked you some questions. May I have answers to those questions? Why is it that you never answer questions when they are asked?

A_MichaelUK
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 5383
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:35 pm

Re: Is there room for different types of fans? (long & boring)

Post by A_MichaelUK » Wed Dec 23, 2009 9:43 pm

>Please feel free correct me If I'm wrong Andy

I can confirm your statement is incorrect.

pitkin88
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 4478
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:25 am
Location: calif

Re: Is there room for different types of fans? (long & boring)

Post by pitkin88 » Wed Dec 23, 2009 10:04 pm

A_MichaelUK wrote:>Please feel free correct me If I'm wrong Andy

I can confirm your statement is incorrect.

At least I'm consistant.

User avatar
MadameBondage
Humanary Stew
Humanary Stew
Posts: 64
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2009 2:28 pm

Re: Is there room for different types of fans? (long & boring)

Post by MadameBondage » Tue Dec 29, 2009 1:09 pm

[quote="glamprincess
As for Si Halley, there is nothing wrong with being a nice guy and a guy does not need to "grow a set" just because he is polite and easygoing.

If you want to debate people here, that's fine. Debates can be interesting and even entertaining. But I get the feeling that it's not the issues that you are debating as much as a desire to go against Andy.[/quote]

I totally agree with you Glam, regarding Si. He IS a nice, polite guy and, as the owner of this site, he HAS to be impartial and try to keep the peace. I think it's grossly off-colour of pitkin88 to speak to him like that.

I am enjoying this debate - at least the posts by yourself (as always, fair and entertaining) and Andy and all those who are being rational. I have to say that it appears to me that pitkin88 is being deliberately confrontational toward Andy and Si.

Now he can have a go at me too! :8):
I've see a million faces and I've rocked 'em all ~ JBJ

glamprincess
Dada God
Dada God
Posts: 757
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 1:24 am
Location: Canada

Re: Is there room for different types of fans? (long & boring)

Post by glamprincess » Thu Dec 31, 2009 4:11 pm

MadameBondage wrote:
I totally agree with you Glam, regarding Si. He IS a nice, polite guy and, as the owner of this site, he HAS to be impartial and try to keep the peace. I think it's grossly off-colour of pitkin88 to speak to him like that.

I am enjoying this debate - at least the posts by yourself (as always, fair and entertaining) and Andy and all those who are being rational. I have to say that it appears to me that pitkin88 is being deliberately confrontational toward Andy and Si.

Now he can have a go at me too! :8):
Thanks for your very kind post, Madame B. If anyone has a go at you, Magz, just get out the old whip and we'll teach them a much-deserved lesson! :rotfl:

Post Reply