Kiss didn't make it.

[pitkin88]

I don't have all day for this but to Si: TB posted an exhaustive audio/visual example so I would tend to believe him. I doubt he made it up. You just told me I'm wrong so as you say it's a stalemate.

There are many legit businesses that provide needle drop services. Is this illegal? I don't hear of anyone being busted. It's not Illegal to copy a cd is it? I'm sure you can do this on your computer. How about all those You Tube links you provide? How about all the magazine articles you copy and post here? Is that Illegal? If you and Andy are so concerned about LEGALITY please feel free to send me all your bootleg albums, cds and tapes.

[glamprincess]

I was looking for a response to the audio/visual archiving and restoration not the queueing up in the rain stuff which a lot of fans of numerous bands have done.
... (..If you haven't been put off by all the hostillity ).

Major Alice Cooper fan, Brian Nelson, was probably archiving audio/visual stuff. And I know an Alice Cooper fan who was collecting rare Alice Cooper music but I am not going to reveal his name as I don't think it's appropriate to discuss personal stuff like that.

But bottom line is this: why does archiving and restoring music make a fan more dedicated than a fan who spends hours queueing in line for shows? That seems like a rather snobbish way to judge fans.

And I don't think anyone was hostile either.

[Si]

I should add that I have queued for hours for Alice Cooper shows too.

I think around 36 hours for one short show is my personal record. In Decemebr, in the snow.
I don`t recommened it.

[A_MichaelUK]

>I was talking of an audio time frame not a written time frame as we have here.

That exists as well. Just because it hasn't just been handed to you, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

>There is no evidence that anything Alice related COMPARES to Purple Chick or perhaps Genesis ( I'll take TB at his word as I know nothing about Genesis ).

Why? Just because you've never seen it? Some of it is in my collection. Is that not enough proof?

>It is not ILLEGAL for me to make needledrop copies of my OWN purchased vinyl and give them away FREE to friends.

Actually, there sort of is. Read the small print on the label of anything pressed on vinyl.

>I am not SELLING.

You don't have to be doing that.

>And do you really think WARNER gives a crap?

Why don't you ask them that question? While you're doing that, ask the publishers of the songs what they think. It's possible they would give you permission, but I'd like to see you ask them just to see what their response would be. Also, I will agree it might be a bit of a grey area and I'm sort of familiar with the doctrine of 'fair use', but my guess is that you are not.

> Like WARNER would waste their time on me is ridiculous and you know it. Feel free to call their legal dept on me If you like.

Actually, that brings up the whole question of illegal file - sharing and downloads which is very contemporary. As I've said before, what you do in private is your business. I just don't think you should be advertising it here and some respect for what Si wants would be good.

> NO ONE has shown any EVIDENCE of ANY projects that are happening elsewhere.

Why don't you LOOK for the "EVIDENCE"? How about YOU go and do a bit of work?

[A_MichaelUK]

> Andy seems to think they have but gives no examples.

Why should I give "examples"? What makes you think those people want you to know who they are and what they do? How about my own collection? Is that enough evidence? There is one very well - known site which has made a decent attempt at doing exactly that which you ask for. Instead of making assumptions, I suggest you carry out a simple search and find it.

[A_MichaelUK]

I don't have all day for this but to Si: TB posted an exhaustive audio/visual example so I would tend to believe him. I doubt he made it up. You just told me I'm wrong so as you say it's a stalemate.

>There are many legit businesses that provide needle drop services. Is this illegal? I don't hear of anyone being busted.

Look up the 'fair use' doctrine.

> It's not Illegal to copy a cd is it?

Actually, it is. Are you seriously telling me that you have been buying recorded music for all these years and you didn't know that?!

>I'm sure you can do this on your computer. How about all those You Tube links you provide? How about all the magazine articles you copy and post here? Is that Illegal?

Some seriously great questions there, but I don't think you realise that.

>If you and Andy are so concerned about LEGALITY please feel free to send me all your bootleg albums, cds and tapes.

You're getting very confused - your suggestion only applies if we are NOT "so concerned"!

[Si]

I don't have all day for this but to Si: TB posted an exhaustive audio/visual example so I would tend to believe him. I doubt he made it up. You just told me I'm wrong so as you say it's a stalemate.

Oh, the example Bob gives is 100% correct. I have THAT version of the recording he talks about. Those guys had access to material and equipment most of us couldn`t dream of getting to. Some, however, do. Alice fans included, or the money to get access.

There are many legit businesses that provide needle drop services. Is this illegal?

If they are ligitimate, that would mean they have the permission of the owners of the recordings to do it. So obvioulsy not illegal. Do you have permission? Bet you don`t.

I don't hear of anyone being busted. It's not Illegal to copy a cd is it?

Simple answer is yes, it is. Sure, as Andy mentions there are various "fair useage" reasons for doing it, but generally speaking no you can't, and certainly NOT to give to your friends whether free or not.

I'm sure you can do this on your computer. How about all those You Tube links you provide? How about all the magazine articles you copy and post here? Is that Illegal?

Links to youtube? no. Not illegal. However the content on YouTube could well be (depending on the agreement in place between YouTube and the copyright owners), which is why so much gets removed all the time. However the YouTube debate is another subject which has been in the news a lot for this very reason.

I generally don`t copy and post articles here, I generally link to the source material. Copying it would be illegal in the strictist sense. Taking quotes from articles is covered under "fair useage" in editorial form. Not sure what the precise wording is (or how long the quote i allowed to be). Means you can quote parts of books etc for editorial reasons, as long as you reference the source. Something like that. I don`t claim to be an expert.

If you and Andy are so concerned about LEGALITY please feel free to send me all your bootleg albums, cds and tapes.

We, personally, are not.
It's the fact you seem unaware of the very basics of copyright law that we are surprised by. Especially as the subject has come up so many times in AC fandom over the last 10 years or so of the Internet age, including people getting lawyers letters and cease and desist orders on some occasions.

[pitkin88]

I said i was working on a project which is hardly advertising it. I'm not posting any links to anything here. Why does Si allow You Tube links to illegally recorded concerts? Why does Si allow magazine articles to be shown? Does he get permission from each publication? Neither you nor Si have answered this. I certainly wouldn't want to put this site in any jeopardy.

Toronto Bob is referring to SHARED projects. What you have personally I don't believe is shared. Correct me If I'm wrong? I believe you and I traded in the past. I don't quite remember if it was you or someone else was charging 3 quid a tape or not but you had a very impressive collection of boots.

Anyway, NO ONE here has offered up anything like the Genesis audio/visual project so i think it's safe to say one doesn't exist. You could post similar with names blocked out but I doubt you will. Case closed.

[glamprincess]

I should add that I have queued for hours for Alice Cooper shows too.

I think around 36 hours for one short show is my personal record. In Decemebr, in the snow.
I don`t recommened it.

Wow....hope you didn't get frostbite, Si. And that you remembered to bring lots of hot chocolate...

[damiennalice]

>> Anyway, NO ONE here has offered up anything like the Genesis audio/visual project so i think it's safe to say one doesn't exist

And you base this on less than 24 hours of discussion? Wow.

[A_MichaelUK]

>I said i was working on a project which is hardly advertising it. I'm not posting any links to anything here.

You sort of did. You wrote:
I am personally working on a " true " version of ACGH made from the original 45's. I only need two more excellent quality 45's and I'm ready to go. I have a friend who makes amazing needle drops. Needless to say it will be made available free when completed.

>Why does Si allow You Tube links to illegally recorded concerts? Why does Si allow magazine articles to be shown? Does he get permission from each publication? Neither you nor Si have answered this.

He just did!

>I certainly wouldn't want to put this site in any jeopardy.

I don't doubt that, which is why I said what you did in private is your business.

>Toronto Bob is referring to SHARED projects.

So what?

> What you have personally I don't believe is shared.

Some of it is. Just because you might not have any of it doesn't mean that it isn't.

> you had a very impressive collection of boots.

The majority of those came from other collectors which proves that what Toronto Bob wrote is wrong.

>Anyway, NO ONE here has offered up anything like the Genesis audio/visual project so i think it's safe to say one doesn't exist.

I'd love to see you try and prosecute someone in court using that logic! If you make an assertion, you're supposed to prove it. Just saying it "doesn't exist" (because you haven't seen the evidence) isn't proof!

>You could post similar with names blocked out but I doubt you will.

What good would that do? That doesn't make sense. If there are no "names", one could make up anything.

[Si]

I said i was working on a project which is hardly advertising it. I'm not posting any links to anything here. Why does Si allow You Tube links to illegally recorded concerts? Why does Si allow magazine articles to be shown? Does he get permission from each publication? Neither you nor Si have answered this. I certainly wouldn't want to put this site in any jeopardy.

I did actually answer you, at least partially. But you seem to be going off on a different tangent.

No one has said you are advertising anything, in the context you mean the term. No one has even told you not to do it.

Note: Youtube videos are NOT hosted on this site, nor posted to YouTube by this site. I, personally, consider people posting links to youtube in these forums a "grey area", and generaly allow it in the interest of people, and myself, seeing this stuff. The links themsleves are not illegal.
In the same way of a forum member posts an article (hopefully with the source linked) I generally turn a blind eye. If the copyright owner ever contacted me I would of course remove it immediately.

No one EVER said don't do what you are suggesting you are doing. In the same way no one has EVER said don`t collect bootlegs.
I think you are confusing two things.
1. Us trying to educate you in the facts of a situation
2. Whether we think what you (or anyone else) does is a worthy endevour.
The two are completely different things.

Toronto Bob is referring to SHARED projects. What you have personally I don't believe is shared. Correct me If I'm wrong? I believe you and I traded in the past. I don't quite remember if it was you or someone else was charging 3 quid a tape or not but you had a very impressive collection of boots.

You can "personally believe" whatever you like. Doesn`t effect the truth in any way, as you don`t know what any of us have, or who we share or don`t share it with. All you know is you don`t have it (and I'm not saying I do either).

Anyway, NO ONE here has offered up anything like the Genesis audio/visual project so i think it's safe to say one doesn't exist. You could post similar with names blocked out but I doubt you will. Case closed.

You're safe to say that, yes. I'm not sure anything that extreme has been possible with Alice Cooper material. However people work with what they can get.

btw, You seen Prime Cuts? Put together by the biggest AC fan ever, much of it from his own archives which he sourced, had digitally mastered and cleaned up, then officially released LEGALLY.

No, of course there aren`t any AC fans who go the extra mile.

[Toronto Bob]

I said i was working on a project which is hardly advertising it. I'm not posting any links to anything here. Why does Si allow You Tube links to illegally recorded concerts? Why does Si allow magazine articles to be shown? Does he get permission from each publication? Neither you nor Si have answered this. I certainly wouldn't want to put this site in any jeopardy.

I did actually answer you, at least partially. But you seem to be going off on a different tangent.

No one has said you are advertising anything, in the context you mean the term. No one has even told you not to do it.

Note: Youtube videos are NOT hosted on this site, nor posted to YouTube by this site. I, personally, consider people posting links to youtube in these forums a "grey area", and generaly allow it in the interest of people, and myself, seeing this stuff. The links themsleves are not illegal.
In the same way of a forum member posts an article (hopefully with the source linked) I generally turn a blind eye. If the copyright owner ever contacted me I would of course remove it immediately.

No one EVER said don't do what you are suggesting you are doing. In the same way no one has EVER said don`t collect bootlegs.
I think you are confusing two things.
1. Us trying to educate you in the facts of a situation
2. Whether we think what you (or anyone else) does is a worthy endevour.
The two are completely different things.

Toronto Bob is referring to SHARED projects. What you have personally I don't believe is shared. Correct me If I'm wrong? I believe you and I traded in the past. I don't quite remember if it was you or someone else was charging 3 quid a tape or not but you had a very impressive collection of boots.

You can "personally believe" whatever you like. Doesn`t effect the truth in any way, as you don`t know what any of us have, or who we share or don`t share it with. All you know is you don`t have it (and I'm not saying I do either).

Anyway, NO ONE here has offered up anything like the Genesis audio/visual project so i think it's safe to say one doesn't exist. You could post similar with names blocked out but I doubt you will. Case closed.

You're safe to say that, yes. I'm not sure anything that extreme has been possible with Alice Cooper material. However people work with what they can get.

btw, You seen Prime Cuts? Put together by the biggest AC fan ever, much of it from his own archives which he sourced, had digitally mastered and cleaned up, then officially released LEGALLY.

No, of course there aren`t any AC fans who go the extra mile.

That's a supurious arguement Renfield was on Alice's payroll. Apples and Oranges I'm talking about fans who want the best for other fans. Prime Cuts is a commercial endevour that did what typical Alice commercial endevours do - tease and not deliver. Prime Cuts was the perfect title.

[A_MichaelUK]

>That's a supurious arguement Renfield was on Alice's payroll.

He wasn't paid by Alice for his work on "Prime Cuts". You're wrong (again).

>Apples and Oranges I'm talking about fans who want the best for other fans.

That's why he was asked to be a producer on that project - because he was a fan, not because he was Alice's assistant!

>tease and not deliver. Prime Cuts was the perfect title.

I look forward to your official Alice Cooper archive release. Do keep us informed of your progress.

[Shoesalesman]

Prime Cuts is a commercial endevour that did what typical Alice commercial endevours do - tease and not deliver. Prime Cuts was the perfect title.

Having not seen much of the rare footage on Prime Cuts when it came out it most certainly 'delivered' for me. At that time for me it was the ONLY way to know about the rare stuff... so I was more than okay with snipets. Those visuals were better than nothing, which is what I had other than The Nightmare Returns VHS and maybe Much Music.

You can only fit a certain amount of material on a video release, and back then it was VHS - the tapes are only so long before cost and tape quality become compromised.

[Si]

That's a supurious arguement Renfield was on Alice's payroll. Apples and Oranges I'm talking about fans who want the best for other fans. Prime Cuts is a commercial endevour that did what typical Alice commercial endevours do - tease and not deliver. Prime Cuts was the perfect title.

I wasn`t using the release as such as an argument. Simply pointing out the example that there are fans that have sourced out such material (and much more I'm sure).

[A_MichaelUK]

>Prime Cuts was the perfect title.

Also, Toronto Bob appears to be very confused because "Prime Cuts" generally means the best parts of something, yet he doesn't appear to think it was any good, so it's weird that he says it "was the perfect title."

[WickedYoungMan]

Prime Cuts is a commercial endevour that did what typical Alice commercial endevours do - tease and not deliver.

I'm curious what you felt it didn't deliver on?

[Toronto Bob]

Prime Cuts is a commercial endevour that did what typical Alice commercial endevours do - tease and not deliver.

I'm curious what you felt it didn't deliver on?

I loved the material included but the truncated clips of the songs was what bothered me the most. Now as a documntary film, that's OK to do that, but the cover went to list all the songs included, like a concert dvd or a cd would and that leads the consumer to believe these songs are contained within, not just "clips". As well, some interviews with the original members would have been nice.

And now to answer Andy - yes the title means best "PARTS" of something. I'd rather here the WHOLE song not its' BEST PART.

[Si]

I loved the material included but the truncated clips of the songs was what bothered me the most. Now as a documntary film, that's OK to do that, but the cover went to list all the songs included, like a concert dvd or a cd would and that leads the consumer to believe these songs are contained within, not just "clips". As well, some interviews with the original members would have been nice.

You do know the DVD version of Prime Cuts HAS much of that stuff? They couldn`t fit it all on the VHS, but the DVD is a double disc set. Correct me if I'm wrong, as my memory could be playing tricks on me, but doesn`t it includes the individule clips playable alone (as a jukebox), as well as more interviews with the original band etc.