Kiss didn't make it.

[Toronto Bob]

>Oh yeah and the fact that I don't have the dvd of something that I already purchased does speak volumes - about how someone should make it worthwhile for me to make a repeat purchase of something I already own

Also, you're trying to 're - write history" and not for the first time either. You're write that "someone should make it worthwhile for" you "to make a repeat purchase" but that's not what you wrote originally. You wrote:
"I don't have the dvd only bought the VHS when it was released back in the 90's. If there's a confirmation on this, I'll readily snap it up." In other words, you didn't know the new version even existed - that's why glamprincess questioned your dedication.

Not re-writing anything - there's a conversation going on between your ears and your ears alone.

I was well aware of the 2 disc dvd, had it in my hands at my local "Sam the Record Man" read the description of contents on the outer case, and while I can't remember what it said, it was either lacking in detail or not compelling enough to warrent the purchase price (which at the time was an import and was in the $45-$50 range). I also don't have Trashes the World on dvd either and that's because I have no yearning to watch it. Trash may have been a commercial success for Alice and it was a good Hair-Metal album, I don't care for corporate Hair Metal too much. If I see it for a bargain price and I'm in a purchasing mood, I'll pick it up, but I don't feel obligated. Let's see...what else don't I have? Oh yeah, I don't pick up any Best of collections, only have 5 versions of the Toronto 1969 show, no picture sleeve singles, no magazines, posters, don't have the Billion Dollar Baby book (although I read it a few times back in H.S.) and don't have all the variations of any of the albums

So as far as anyone questioning my dedication - go ahead, I make no claims on being Alice's #1 fan. I'm content with my level of fandom, collecting and expertise. I don't have the largest or most complete colletion but I really don't care. As I stated before my interests lie in colecting music, the special wrappers it comes in I'm not as concerned about.

Tell you what I have done though, I've put together 3-4 titles of unreleased Alice that are the definitive releases for that material, and if you're any sort of collector of unreleased stuff you have (or should have) them in your collection. So I find it funny that I, who you resent so much, has very likely enjoyed the fruits of my "dedication", while you have given me virtually nothing but grief (I never actually set eyes on your kick ass fanzine from the eighties). And before you go into some sermon on the illegalities of bootleg, I did this through sharing which is as illegal as you reprinting articles and pictures without the permission of the photographers (believe me, I know pro-photogs, they want their slice) , writers and publishers. So don't try that moral high ground stuff with me.

[A_MichaelUK]

>Not re-writing anything - there's a conversation going on between your ears and your ears alone.

If there is, it's based on what YOU wrote and nothing else. By the way, it's rather hypocritical of you to complain about disrespect, if that's the kind of thing you're going to write.

> it was either lacking in detail or not compelling enough to warrent the purchase price (which at the time was an import and was in the $45-$50 range).

But a 'dedicated fan' like you would surely have investigated it further to get more information on it! There was probably a lot of discussion about it on the internet and I already provided you with a link that existed for some time, but which you clearly have never read. Is that what a 'dedicated fan' does? You see, Toronto Bob, the truth is neither glamprincess or I are REALLY questioning whether you are dedicated or not (although it's very amusing how defensive you have become on the subject). What we won't tolerate is the kind of smug, ill - informed attitude you have directed towards people you DON'T EVEN KNOW and the generalisations that you make and when it's pointed out to you, you complain about disrespect. That's hypocrisy.

> I also don't have Trashes the World on dvd either and that's because I have no yearning to watch it. Trash may have been a commercial success for Alice and it was a good Hair-Metal album, I don't care for corporate Hair Metal too much.

Stop changing the subject - no one said you have to like anything to do with "Trash". You're getting very defensive.

> As I stated before my interests lie in colecting music, the special wrappers it comes in I'm not as concerned about.

That's not really what we're discussing and you know it.

> So I find it funny that I, who you resent so much,

Like what?!

>has very likely enjoyed the fruits of my "dedication",

Like what? I challenge you to tell me your real name, then I can tell you whether or not I have dealt with you in the past - I'm guessing I haven't which more than likely means I owe you absolutely nothing at all.

>while you have given me virtually nothing but grief

That's what I tend to do to people who make assertions they cannot or will not substantiate.

> (I never actually set eyes on your kick ass fanzine from the eighties).

That tells me it's extremely unlikely I have ever dealt with you, so I'm not sure which 'fruit' of your's I'm supposed to have "enjoyed".

>And before you go into some sermon on the illegalities of bootleg, I did this through sharing which is as illegal as you reprinting articles and pictures without the permission of the photographers

How do you know I didn't?!

>(believe me, I know pro-photogs, they want their slice) , writers and publishers. So don't try that moral high ground stuff with me.

What an idiotic thing to write. Do you know anything about 'fair use' AT ALL? I may have asked that already, in which case, that's ANOTHER question you haven't answered and ALSO, Si gave an explanation yesterday on how 'fair use' works. Did you even READ it? Also, you just wrote "I never actually set eyes on your kick ass fanzine from the eighties" yet you now imply you are familiar with the contents of it. Why is it that almost everything you wrote containes a contradiction?

[Toronto Bob]

I'll put your mind at ease A_MichaelUK, we've never had contact outside of this board. I never traded with you, been at an Alice concert, nothing, nada, zippo.

I made reasonable assumptions

i) you have an extensive Alice collection that includes unauthorized recordings and that you would have all the "important" recordings

ii) your fanzine, which I only know about from a thread here, contained things other than articles written by you and contained photos of Alice or others, that you didn't, couldn't track down the owner of that work and either get permission of it's use or buy the rights. Sure I could be wrong but am I? Can you state unequivocally that you obtained permission for every article and photograph. And no - fair use doesn't cover that, not by a long shot.

As stated in my thread, you worship your way and I will mine. I don't need to be "corrected" at every turn. There's nothing to set right. You just don't like people making statements that differ from your opinion.

I'll give you the last word on this, this topic has run its' course afaic.

[WickedYoungMan]

I know Si and others have provided a response to this, but I wanted to expand further, plus I'm bored.

I realized that the VHS edition had limitations as far as length of clips, but it was still hard to see just a minute of "Black Ju Ju" and "Dwight Fry" live with the original band.

Longtime fans like myself want as much of the original band as possible in these compilations.

Problem solved with the re-done DVD version, right?

NO! These are still just clips, NOT THE FULL-LENGTH versions! Geez....who put this thing together anyway?

The "Alice Cooper Virtual Jukebox" feature will have the full-length versions, right?

No, this is just an direct access to the clips in Prime Cuts via a page designed like an old jukebox.Whoopee...

Perhaps this reviewer is not aware that the film was a documentary. The Black JuJu clip that we got a glimpse of is over 9 minutes long! That would be insane to include within it and would completely killed the flow of story telling, especially that early on in the film.

Something to keep in mind is that Prime Cuts came out a little bit after Alice's resurgence in popularity. As Si mentioned, one of the objectives here was perhaps to keep newer fans in mind. In fact, I seem to recall Brian mentioning that the reason we didn't get a lot of material from the obscure early 1980s albums was because of the very fact of newer or casual fans. The documentary was about the history of Alice Cooper, the clips were to help tell the story and give a run down of the musical history. The DVD was not meant to be a "Music Video" film.

For that reason, I'm pretty sure the person giving that review isn't enjoying a career out of producing films.

One more thing regarding the Jukebox. The Jukebox is more or less a glorified scene selection. However, even DVDs have limitations. We got a couple of extended things on that first release. But it would have meant A.) Going back and refurbishing all the original source prints those clips came from, cleaning them up, etc. B.) Adding them back to the DVD. Even DVDs have their limitations. This would have meant adding more material on to the DVD where there may not have even been enough room on it.

No, they did the sinful thing of giving us a brand new DVD which is almost specifically aimed at fans with original band interviews, never before seen interviews and rehearsal footage, etc.

Wait! Disc 2 has "Over 80 minutes of comprehensive supplemental material assembled specially for this DVD", that will have the full-length clips of the original band, right?

No, it is an annoying, little game you play where you roll the dice on the screen to access different clips.

It's easy to get past if one knows how to do some research, though perhaps to be fair to this guy he either wasn't part of an A.C. mailing list or STUK didn't have it published at the time of the review. None the less, there is a trick around it.

If you land on square 100, you can watch the entire feature all at once.

There has to be an easter egg for this but I haven't found it yet. It would be just like this stupid DVD not to have one.

Because this reviewer hasn't found it then it obviously means it doesn't exist, right?

The feature is different interview clips of Alice, Mike Bruce, Neil Smith, Dennis Dunaway and Dick Wagner from the Behind the Music show on VH-1, I think. It's pretty good because it's ALWAYS good to see the original lineup, ya see.

The incredibly stupid thing about it is that each clip leads into a FULL-LENGTH live song clip from the Brutal Live concert vid or The Nightmare Returns vid.

This guy has a fuzzy memory. It's all "Raise Your Fist and Yell" dress rehearsal footage. Great qualify footage none the less. Nothing "incredibly stupid" about that. There is only one clip from "Brutally Live" as well as was mentioned above.

They interview the original band ONLY (plus Wagner) and then feature the 1986 and 2000 lineups ONLY via the clips! Huh?

1987 line up.

These were fine shows (especially the Brutal vid), but why do they keep the material most wanted by the fans in the vault?

Like the "Raise your Fist and Yell" dress rehearsal tour footage? Basically this guy is complaining about something that partially doesn't exist.

Anyone that would buy this DVD already has Brutally Live and The Nightmare Returns anyway.

Right, and now they would have the "Raise Your Fist and Yell" tour rehearsal footage.

Alice Cooper finally let some live material with the original band go on the Billion Dollar Babies 2CD reissue early in 2001.

Part of that material technically had been around since 1974, just outside of the theatrical release it wasn't officially released yet.

I sure hope he has plans to make more of the original band's live material available via CD or DVD.

How about that.

The Prime Cuts (Limited Edition 2-Disc Set) DVD release here is a big disappointment.

Especially as he seems to have a faulty DVD which includes a concert that isn't there.

I'll still likely order it hey, just sayin'. Oh yeah and the fact that I don't have the dvd of something that I already purchased does speak volumes - about how someone should make it worthwhile for me to make a repeat purchase of something I already own

Now you have your answer as to why you shouldn't just look at one review.

[A_MichaelUK]

>I'll put your mind at ease A_MichaelUK, we've never had contact outside of this board. I never traded with you, been at an Alice concert, nothing, nada, zippo.

It doesn't bother me at all. You're the one who brought it up.

>I made reasonable assumptions

Such as assuming that Alice Cooper fans were not as "dedicated" as Genesis fans when it came to collecting rare recordings.

>i) you have an extensive Alice collection that includes unauthorized recordings and that you would have all the "important" recordings

It depends on how you define "important", I suppose.

>ii) your fanzine, which I only know about from a thread here, contained things other than articles written by you

That is correct.

>and contained photos of Alice or others, that you didn't, couldn't track down the owner of that work and either get permission of it's use or buy the rights.

That is also correct.

>Sure I could be wrong but am I?

No, but your implication is. For maybe the third time, you need to learn about the 'fair use' doctrine. Another 'assumption' you are making is about the amount and type of protected material I used. Since you confirm, you never saw a single copy of the fanzine, you cannot make what you just described as "reasonable assumptions". Not that it's ANY of your business, but I did indeed seek (and obtained) permission to use some material. In other cases, I did not. I did not need to.

> Can you state unequivocally that you obtained permission for every article and photograph. And no - fair use doesn't cover that, not by a long shot.

Actually, it does. Shall we debate it?

>I don't need to be "corrected" at every turn.

I think falsehoods should be corrected.

>There's nothing to set right. You just don't like people making statements that differ from your opinion.

If my "opinion" is based on the facts, you are correct. As I may have said before, most of my opinions are based on the way things are, not the way I THINK they are.

>I'll give you the last word on this, this topic has run its' course afaic.

I don't want "the last word" - I want you to answer the questions you have been asked in this thread (and other threads, as well).

[mattcoddington]

This is not AM Sickthings UK as far as I know.

it's not??? then what am i doing here?

[pitkin88]

>I don't have the dvd

The DVD came out in 2001 - the fact that you still don't have it is quite revealing!

I'm noy big on the dvd for the same reasons TB posted. Anyway, I will send it to you TB gratis. I'm assumomg it is ok to give it away free as it's mine and I paid for it.

[pitkin88]

Excellent! I don't have the dvd only bought the VHS when it was released back in the 90's. If there's a confirmation on this, I'll readily snap it up.

I have it in front of me. That confirmation enough?
I know it wouldn`t be for some prople

Make sure you get the re-release 2 disc version.

Yes please post a time and dated pic with photo.

[pitkin88]

TO Wym. Cut TB some slack re the rehearsal footage.
I had to think hard about which show that was. I don't remember it being very interesting. I'm not a fan of the Kane Roberts metal stuff.

I agree they couldn't play the full songs on the documentary due to it would have needed to be a much longer dvd. It would have been nice to have the full versions on the second disc. As AM pointed they may have only be able to show clips. Who knows. I hated the easter egg thing as it was a pain in the arse trying to watch the band and falling down the ladders.

[Si]

TO Wym. Cut TB some slack re the rehearsal footage.
I had to think hard about which show that was. I don't remember it being very interesting. I'm not a fan of the Kane Roberts metal stuff.

I can quite understand not being as interested in the RYF show if you aren`t keen on Kane and that era. But not very interesting? It was a hugely theatrical show with lots of new skits, plus some cool old ones returning. The first time for the Gallows since 1972 for example.

I agree that the footage on the DVD maybe doesn`t represent the show at it's best, being rehearsal footage, but as there is nothing else available (apart from one cam bootlegs) it's a priceless reminder for those who saw the show and a heads up for those who missed it.

[WickedYoungMan]

TO Wym. Cut TB some slack re the rehearsal footage.

I never went after TB. It wasn't his review as he was showing us one from Amazon, that's why I said "This guy" or "This person" in my response.

[pitkin88]

TO Wym. Cut TB some slack re the rehearsal footage.

I never went after TB. It wasn't his review as he was showing us one from Amazon, that's why I said "This guy" or "This person" in my response.

O.k. I see. I got back late last night and there was a lot to read.

[pitkin88]

TO Wym. Cut TB some slack re the rehearsal footage.
I had to think hard about which show that was. I don't remember it being very interesting. I'm not a fan of the Kane Roberts metal stuff.

I can quite understand not being as interested in the RYF show if you aren`t keen on Kane and that era. But not very interesting? It was a hugely theatrical show with lots of new skits, plus some cool old ones returning. The first time for the Gallows since 1972 for example.

I agree that the footage on the DVD maybe doesn`t represent the show at it's best, being rehearsal footage, but as there is nothing else available (apart from one cam bootlegs) it's a priceless reminder for those who saw the show and a heads up for those who missed it.

I meant not very interesting to me. I felt it was a little pantomine like.

[mattcoddington]

I agree that the footage on the DVD maybe doesn`t represent the show at it's best, being rehearsal footage, but as there is nothing else available (apart from one cam bootlegs) it's a priceless reminder for those who saw the show and a heads up for those who missed it.

brian had filmed several shows himself. however, the quality isn't great. as you have just stated, there seems to be NO high quality video recordings of the 'live in the flesh' tour.

[steven_crayn]

Toronto Bob you really need to get over yourself you come on here questioning the dedication of Alice fans, then go on the defensive bordering on delusions of persecution when you are challenged.

Do you think an Alice fan would go on a Genesis forum and start questioning that set of fans loyalty?

I've got hundreds of tapes, videos, DVDs, vinyl and CDs of Alice live stuff, studio outtakes, rare tracks, interviews etc... spanning his whole career and have seen shows on every single Alice UK tour since 1982, on many occasions going to most or every venue, spending lots of time and money, sleeping at railway stations in the cold waiting for trains to get home and doing the same thing again , standing in queues sometimes for several hours.

I'm also not unique, many Alice fans are dedicated and no doubt like me think he is worth that dedication.

So if you and your mate Pitkin want to have a go, expect an argument and if you can't stand the heat stay out of the kitchen!

And for the record it is a joke that Kiss are even nominated before Alice they are not in the same league!

[WickedYoungMan]

Do you think an Alice fan would go on a Genesis forum and start questioning that set of fans loyalty?

Yes an Alice fan would.







That's why I'm banned from the Genesis forum.

[glamprincess]

That's why I'm banned from the Genesis forum.

Hey....yeah....they banned me from the Genesis forum for that also. And they banned me from the Rush forum too. But that was for a different reason....that was for being a girl.

[mattcoddington]

But that was for a different reason....that was for being a girl.

that seems backwards to me!

[glamprincess]

But that was for a different reason....that was for being a girl.

that seems backwards to me!

Yes....they should be desperate for women over there.....

I've been told that at Rush concerts, there are virtually no women. It's like being at a Star Trek convention.

[kevinuk81]

Over to you Shoey.