Kiss didn't make it.

[Toronto Bob]

Rather pointless to express any POV if my comments get removed. My limited experience clearly is more comprehensive than your experience when it comes to collecting music. Enjoy your posters and fanzines - I prefer to listen to music.

I'll give you the last word (as I know you have OCD when it comes to that sort of thing).

[pitkin88]

[quote="A_MichaelUK"]>
I challenge you to do what certain Alice Cooper fans did during this last British tour.


I am curious what exactly did they do? I'm assuming it wasn't just a meet up at the boozer.

[pitkin88]

[quote="Toronto Bob"]

You have no idea what Genesis stories are out there then. My god, the dedication Genesis fans have shown to THE MUSIC dwarfs anything I've seen Alice fans do. They are dedicated in a different way. Genesis fans have kept an aural history that Alice fans can't begin to comprehend.


I tend to agree with Toronto Bob. This Genesis project
sounds similar to some of The Beatles ones such as Purple Chick and Lazy Tortoise. Lazy Tortoise focused on compiling cds chronicling time lines eg June 16-24 1965.
They had press conferences, interviews etc along with detailed notes. Purple Chick compiled every known take, variation etc of the The Beatles recorded songs from the best possible sources. An exhausting amount of research was done on many continents. I don't believe anyone has tried this with Alice. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

I doubt we've had anyone restoring video here or even bidding collectively on rare recordings. On the Bootlegzone site, Beatles fans bid and won on some very rare McCartney/Cilla Black ( Beatles time frame )recordings. These were then made available for trade.

Here, there's not even much excitement about the Hoffman remasters. A lot of people seemed happy with the poor cds we've has for years.

Part of the problem we have here is there seems to be a real fear of Alice's management and what they might do if we started similar projects and began distributing them to the fans.

I am personally working on a " true " version of ACGH made from the original 45's. I only need two more excellent quality 45's and I'm ready to go. I have a friend who makes amazing needle drops. Needless to say it will be made available free when completed.

I should add that the resources here are excellent. But for audio archiving I doubt the Alice community comes close to some other bands: Genesis/Floyd/Beatles etc.

[Gorehound]

>
I challenge you to do what certain Alice Cooper fans did during this last British tour.


I am curious what exactly did they do? I'm assuming it wasn't just a meet up at the boozer.

Queueing all day in the freezing cold for one. We were all living on about 3 hours sleep for 2 weeks.

I also spent a fortune on this tour, over £300 in trainfare alone. Once you've added up the cost of tickets, hotels, food, etc it comes to a lot of money. I'm not working at the moment as there's tons of assignment work for the course I'm studying at college so this is a big deal for me. I saved up all summer. It was worth every penny but I'm broke now!

Besides, doesn't this site speak for itself? The hard work that's gone into making all this information available surely shows how dedicated some fans are. And I for one am grateful that such a vast amount of information is so readily available, without sickthings I'd be clueless!

[kevinuk81]

pitkin88, you have insulted the owner of this site with your inane remark, if you don't like this site, then why are you here? And all the hard work that Si and various others have done over the years does not mean you can insult them.

[A_MichaelUK]

>Rather pointless to express any POV if my comments get removed.

You are crazy and paranoid. Which "comments" of your's have been remopved from this thread?! STOP BEING SUCH A MARTYR! If your posts had any validity they would not be removed! If you don't like the moderators policy on this, take it up with them and don't complain about it in this thread.

> My limited experience clearly is more comprehensive than your experience when it comes to collecting music.

I'M STILL WAITING TO HEAR HOW MANY ALICE COOPER COLLECTORS YOU KNOW! TELL US! Do tell us more about how "comprehensive" your "experience" is?!

>Enjoy your posters and fanzines - I prefer to listen to music.

I thought I was supposed to be the condescending one on this board?

>I'll give you the last word (as I know you have OCD when it comes to that sort of thing).

No wonder you're so worried about having your posts deleted.

[A_MichaelUK]

>I am curious what exactly did they do? I'm assuming it wasn't just a meet up at the boozer.

With respect, I don't think you have any right to ask that question as I understand you have said recently that you have no desire to go to see Alice as a solo artist (although the fans I'm talking about are free to tell you if they want to as Gorehound has done).

[A_MichaelUK]

>chronicling time lines eg June 16-24 1965.

What do you think Si is doing with this site?!

> I don't believe anyone has tried this with Alice. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

You and Toronto Bob are making an elementary mistake in assuming there is the same amount of Alice Cooper material in circulation as there is with the artists you have both mentioned. Having said that, there is definitely a group of people (including myself) who (sperately and / or together) have attempted to chronicle the different recordings that may or may not exist (mainly for our own infirmation). If you think about it, another reason why Toronto Bob makes no sense is that if what he says is true (and you yourself should know better than to agree with him)
then it does not explain how and why so many live recordings circulate amongst certain groups of fans - the majority don't come from from what you might call 'professional bootleggers - they come from fans who do their own research (unlike Toronto Bob who seems to want thihs just handed to him while others do all the work).

>I doubt we've had anyone restoring video here or even bidding collectively on rare recordings.

That's where you're wrong. Just because you don't know about it, doesn't mean it's not happening. It's a big world out there - bigger than your circle of acquaintances is.

>Here, there's not even much excitement about the Hoffman remasters. A lot of people seemed happy with the poor cds we've has for years.

What do you judge that on? If you're judging that by the responses on this board, again you should be aware that this board isn't the centre of what's going on in terms of collecting Alice Cooper material. It would be pretty arrogant of anyone to think that EVERYTHING to do with Alice Cooper is based on what goes on on this board.

>Part of the problem we have here is there seems to be a real fear of Alice's management and what they might do if we started similar projects and began distributing them to the fans.

It's breaking the law! What don't you understand about that?!

>Needless to say it will be made available free when completed.

I hope Warner Brothers don't read your post, then.

> But for audio archiving I doubt the Alice community comes close to some other bands: Genesis/Floyd/Beatles etc.

Again, you'd be wrong.

[Gorehound]

Hell, on the Psycho Drama Tour I had no one to queue with at the Newcastle gig so I went for 12 hours (maybe more?) without any food or drink which as people pointed out is not healthy. Remember thinking I was gonna collapse afterwards. And I'd do it again in a heartbeat if it was the only way to get a place on the barrier. If that's not dedication I don't know what is.

I wouldn't got to such lengths for anyone or anything else (not even ferret racing ).

I'm not meaning to brag and I'm not asking for a medal or anything, and by no means am I the only fan to go to such lengths for their favourite artist. I may not have been around in the 70's at the height of Alice's fame and I may only have discovered him a few years ago but now Alice is a part of my life I damn well intend to make up for lost time. I'm just grateful he's still touring and he still puts on a great show. Nothing compares to that feeling when Alice hits the stage and the music starts and you can feel it like a second heart beat.

So to say one fanbase is more dedicated than another isn't really fair. I think enough's been said on the matter and it's time to get back on topic before another thread turns into pages and pages of heated arguments.

[glamprincess]

Very good post, Gorey. Glad you had fun at the shows.

[Si]

I tend to agree with Toronto Bob. This Genesis project
sounds similar to some of The Beatles ones such as Purple Chick and Lazy Tortoise. Lazy Tortoise focused on compiling cds chronicling time lines eg June 16-24 1965.
They had press conferences, interviews etc along with detailed notes. Purple Chick compiled every known take, variation etc of the The Beatles recorded songs from the best possible sources. An exhausting amount of research was done on many continents. I don't believe anyone has tried this with Alice. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

You ARE wrong.

I doubt we've had anyone restoring video here or even bidding collectively on rare recordings.

Also completely incorrect on both counts

Here, there's not even much excitement about the Hoffman remasters. A lot of people seemed happy with the poor cds we've has for years.

To be fair the Hoffman remasters have hardly garnered a lot of press. Have they even been advertised at all? I'm still getting emails from people who have only just discovered SO is out.

Part of the problem we have here is there seems to be a real fear of Alice's management and what they might do if we started similar projects and began distributing them to the fans.

Of course there is. As Andy had to point out (even though it seems so obvious) it's ILLEGAL.

I am personally working on a " true " version of ACGH made from the original 45's. I only need two more excellent quality 45's and I'm ready to go. I have a friend who makes amazing needle drops. Needless to say it will be made available free when completed.

And now management know to watch out for your pirated version of their property. Congratualtions.

I should add that the resources here are excellent. But for audio archiving I doubt the Alice community comes close to some other bands: Genesis/Floyd/Beatles etc.

I agree, it probably doesn't, but only because there isn`t as much material out there as you may think. It certainly isn`t because the "dedicated fans" can`t be bothered.
PLus just because YOU don`t have something does not mean it isn`t out there and the "deicated fans" don`t have it.

For the record I would LOVE to have rare, unreleased audio and video material on this site. Interviews, live material etc. All of it.

But ( I know you can see this coming by now)..... IT'S ILLEGAL!
Genesis et al must have a different policy towards such material to Alice Cooper. Genesis management seem happy to allow stuff to be traded like that publicly and openly on the internet. Alice's management, I believe (and I am not pretending to talk with any authority, or to speak for management. It's just what I have been led to believe over the years) would prefer it didn`t happen, or at least was kept to a private, fan to fan, level.

[pitkin88]

pitkin88, you have insulted the owner of this site with your inane remark, if you don't like this site, then why are you here? And all the hard work that Si and various others have done over the years does not mean you can insult them.

Don't be silly. I haven't insulted anyone. What inane remark? Where did I say I don't like this site? I'm sorry I have hurt you by expressing an opinion. Si has never e-mailed me to say i have offended him.

[pitkin88]

>I am curious what exactly did they do? I'm assuming it wasn't just a meet up at the boozer.

With respect, I don't think you have any right to ask that question as I understand you have said recently that you have no desire to go to see Alice as a solo artist (although the fans I'm talking about are free to tell you if they want to as Gorehound has done).

So because i don't watch Alice live anymore I have no right to ask a question how pompous. You challenged Toronto Bob and it would have been nice for you to give an example of the lengths YOU and others went too. If you don't want to say fine by me it just makes you look silly.

[A_MichaelUK]

>So because i don't watch Alice live anymore I have no right to ask a question how pompous.

Yes, that's more or less right.

>You challenged Toronto Bob and it would have been nice for you to give an example of the lengths YOU and others went too.

The burden of proof isn't on me, as I'm not the one making fatuous allegations.

[pitkin88]

To Si. You tell me I am wrong but give NO examples.
Maybe you can't due to fear of Alice's management.
A pm would suffice with examples. If not then I can't respect what you are saying as you can't back it up.

To AM. I was talking of an audio time frame not a written time frame as we have here. There is no evidence that anything Alice related COMPARES to Purple Chick or perhaps Genesis ( I'll take TB at his word as I know nothing about Genesis ).

It is not ILLEGAL for me to make needledrop copies of my OWN purchased vinyl and give them away FREE to friends. I am not SELLING. This is a labour of love that I'm doing at my expense And do you really think WARNER gives a crap? Like WARNER would waste their time on me is ridiculous and you know it. Feel free to call their legal dept on me If you like.

I DO understand why certain stuff can't be on here Si but NO ONE has shown any EVIDENCE of ANY projects that are happening elsewhere.

Re Hoffman. They have been fairly well documented here and other sites so most dedicated fans should know they are available.

I was once as RABID an Alice fan as anyone here I should add. I can back this up too without just a you're WRONG.

[pitkin88]

>So because i don't watch Alice live anymore I have no right to ask a question how pompous.

Yes, that's more or less right.

>You challenged Toronto Bob and it would have been nice for you to give an example of the lengths YOU and others went too.

The burden of proof isn't on me, as I'm not the one making fatuous allegations.

Just making yourself look even sillier aren't you? Why
are you so afraid to back up what you are saying? Why so touchy. This is not AM Sickthings UK as far as I know.

[glamprincess]

I would imagine that most major rock acts including the three mentioned above (Alice Cooper, Kiss and Genesis) have all the different types of dedicated fans. I would bet that they all have fans who are extremely devoted to obtaining as much music as possible, they all have dedicated fans who want posters and fanzines and they all have dedicated fans who will stand in line for hours to try to get to the front.

No one knows who all the fans are for a specific rock act and no one can determine the exact level of dedication of the various fans for that specific rock act. But devoted fans are out there for each of these acts. So it doesn't seem plausible for anyone to argue that one rock act has more devoted fans than another. Or that one rock act has fans that care more about the music or that one rock act has fans that are more interested in posters and collectibles.

[Si]

To Si. You tell me I am wrong but give NO examples.

Because if the people who do that suff wanted it to be public, they would make it public. I don`t NEED to offer you any examples. I just offer the information to correct your assumption.

Maybe you can't due to fear of Alice's management.
A pm would suffice with examples. If not then I can't respect what you are saying as you can't back it up.

That would make this a stalemate then. No need to continue.

To AM. I was talking of an audio time frame not a written time frame as we have here. There is no evidence that anything Alice related COMPARES to Purple Chick or perhaps Genesis ( I'll take TB at his word as I know nothing about Genesis ).

So you'll happily take TB's word (which I don't doubt is correct in this instance) for something you have no knowledge of, but not mine. Thanks a bunch Pitkin. Nice to know my knowledge (or that of many others here) means nothing to you.

It is not ILLEGAL for me to make needledrop copies of my OWN purchased vinyl and give them away FREE to friends.

Oh dear, oh dear. Anyone else want this one?

I am not SELLING. This is a labour of love that I'm doing at my expense And do you really think WARNER gives a crap? Like WARNER would waste their time on me is ridiculous and you know it. Feel free to call their legal dept on me If you like.

All that is irrelevent. Just because they can't be bothered doesn`t make it legal. Besides, what (if I udnerstand you correctly) you're doing already exists.

Re Hoffman. They have been fairly well documented here and other sites so most dedicated fans should know they are available.

You'd think, but that isn`t the reality. I have seen a few articles mentioning them, but that's about all. Plus the Hoffman site (which I never heard of until it was posted here). There are MANY "dedicated fans" who don't use this site.

[glamprincess]

So because i don't watch Alice live anymore I have no right to ask a question how pompous

You challenged Toronto Bob and it would have been nice for you to give an example of the lengths that others went to.

Just making yourself look even sillier aren't you? Why
are you so afraid to back up what you are saying? Why so touchy. This is not AM Sickthings UK as far as I know.

Actually, I think Andy Michael did provide an example of the lengths that others went to. He mentioned that Si, Jaded, Gorehound and SparkintheDark all queued in line for hours in bad weather for a lot of shows as an example of the dedication of Alice Cooper fans. Gorehound even went into greater detail in his posts.

I should add that I have queued for hours for Alice Cooper shows too.

[pitkin88]

So because i don't watch Alice live anymore I have no right to ask a question how pompous

You challenged Toronto Bob and it would have been nice for you to give an example of the lengths that others went to.

Just making yourself look even sillier aren't you? Why
are you so afraid to back up what you are saying? Why so touchy. This is not AM Sickthings UK as far as I know.

Actually, I think Andy Michael did provide an example of the lengths that others went to. He mentioned that Si, Jaded, Gorehound and SparkintheDark all queued in line for hours in bad weather for a lot of shows as an example of the dedication of Alice Cooper fans. Gorehound even went into greater detail in his posts.

I was looking for a response to the audio/visual archiving and restoration not the queueing up in the rain stuff which a lot of fans of numerous bands have done.
Toronto Bob gave an example of an audio visual restoration
that would equal or probably better what an official label has done. Unbelievable stuff. I believe he was stating that ( chime in if I'm WRONG Bob..If you haven't been put off by all the hostillity )Alice fan's have not come close to anything of the like. Andy seems to think they have but gives no examples. I should add AGAIN I am talking audio/visual here not dates and time lines.