SHOCKER-Alice Not nominated again! but.............

[glamprincess]

I am aware of that and actually consider that to be an insulting and rather rude response in all honesty.

My point is; how many nominees or inductees are republican and/or Christian??? The law of average says there must be a good few! I think it is a ludicrous theory about Alice's religious and political views - they are EXTREMELY common. Who honestly believes that?

Just what is the criteria then? Because I'm quite confident that AC doesn't meet it as a solo act or a band.

There is nothing rude or insulting about pointing out that the makeup of people in the entertainment industry is not necessarily the same as the makeup of people all over the US. In fact, it could be argued that someone who does not like the actual makeup of people in the entertainment industry is the one who is being insulting and rude. Why on earth would you assume that the "law of average" applies to the makeup of people in the entertainment industry? It does not. For example, it is well-known that Hollywood is heavily liberal. And how about the fact that many people in the entertainment industry are Jewish? It seems that you are unaware of a lot about Hollywood and the entertainment industry.

And as for your second point, how can you be "quite confident" that Alice Cooper does not meet the Hall of Fame's criteria when you also admit that you don't know what the criteria are??? For those of you who don't know, the criteria are supposed to be about influence and impact in the world of rock n' roll. I think we all know that Alice Cooper has influenced countless other rockers and that Alice Cooper has made a major impact on rock music. So it's pretty safe to say that Alice Cooper has met the criteria and I don't believe the Hall of Fame ever suggested that Alice Cooper did not. So, Gunner, why are you so confident that Alice Cooper (band/solo) has not met the criteria?

[MadameBondage]

I have NEVER known Glam to be rude or insulting to anyone on this forum so I think you are over-reacting a tad here Gunner. Glam is always charming and helpful and has been around in the Alice world for a long time, she is knowledgeable and her opinions are very well respected by STUK members, myself included.

I would also agree with Glam that there are probably more Liberal, Jewish members of the HoF Committee (and the entertainment business generally) than Christian Republicans.

[playingwithtrains]

Can't say with certainty that Alice's views are keeping him out of the HOF, but having dealt with the radio and record business, I can tell you that 90% of the people I spoke with were always shocked to hear that I was in the business and held conservative Christian values. It's so uncommon, everyone just assumes you are a liberal.

[glamprincess]

I have NEVER known Glam to be rude or insulting to anyone on this forum so I think you are over-reacting a tad here Gunner. Glam is always charming and helpful and has been around in the Alice world for a long time, she is knowledgeable and her opinions are very well respected by STUK members, myself included.

Thanks Madame B!!

You are very very kind, always.

[glamprincess]

Can't say with certainty that Alice's views are keeping him out of the HOF, but having dealt with the radio and record business, I can tell you that 90% of the people I spoke with were always shocked to hear that I was in the business and held conservative Christian values. It's so uncommon, everyone just assumes you are a liberal.

Exactly.

[Gunner]

What an idiotic statement. If you don't know what it is, how can you be "confident" about his or the band's credentials?!

What a rude person and aggressive individual you are - shame on you.

Let me explain for you as usual; I seem to recall that neither the band NOR 'Alice Cooper solo' fits the citeria. I cannot recall the criteria exactly, I seem to recall it has to do with longevity and chart success. I am quite confident that I am correct on this. Is that OK Michael???

[Gunner]

Quote:
There is nothing rude or insulting about pointing out that the makeup of people in the entertainment industry is not necessarily the same as the makeup of people all over the US.

Look, I am not stupid, you sarcastically stated that the entire US don't vote for who gets nominated and inducted into the Hall of Fame. That implies that I am an idiot, that rates as rude in my world and most other people's world too.

Quote:
In fact, it could be argued that someone who does not like the actual makeup of people in the entertainment industry is the one who is being insulting and rude.

I don't understand that statement at all, what/who does it refer to??

Quote:
Why on earth would you assume that the "law of average" applies to the makeup of people in the entertainment industry?

What one correctly assumes is that, if the US population has say, 70% Christians, then the law of average states that a small sample will contain a Christian. It's not rocket science!

Quote:
it is well-known that Hollywood is heavily liberal. And how about the fact that many people in the entertainment industry are Jewish?

..and your point is what? How does that equate to the HOF exactly? No non-Jews in entertainment? Non-Jews are discriminated against in entertainment? Is that what you are saying??

Quote:
It seems that you are unaware of a lot about Hollywood and the entertainment industry.

That is irrelevant, point is; there a re millions upon millions upon millions of republicans and Christians in the US, to say that the RRHOF has as prejudice against those groups is a ridiculous suggestion - and you well know it is!! It's like saying that Madame Tussauds wax works in the UK won't do a model of say, MP David Cameron because he is conservative and Christian.

Quote:
And as for your second point, how can you be "quite confident" that Alice Cooper does not meet the Hall of Fame's criteria when you also admit that you don't know what the criteria are???

See my reply to that friend of yours. Basically, read my initial post is a good start and study the logic and reasoning. One can not know something for sure but be "Quite confident" you know?????

Quote:
I think we all know that Alice Cooper has influenced countless other rockers and that Alice Cooper has made a major impact on rock music. So it's pretty safe to say that Alice Cooper has met the criteria and I don't believe the Hall of Fame ever suggested that Alice Cooper did not. So, Gunner, why are you so confident that Alice Cooper (band/solo) has not met the criteria?

NO, I am not! Your criteria is incorrect. Alice should be in it on influence alone, but that is NOT the criteria. Unfortunately his career is divided and ACG to 1974 is NOT the same as AC 1975 to present. Sorry.

Finally, can some of stop being so 'aggressive', what is the matter???

[glamprincess]

Gunner, a few months ago, you kept asking why there was no response to your posts. There's a very good reason that people on this board do not respond to your posts. I decided to give you a chance and try to be helpful, so I was one of the only people here to respond to you. In fact, Andy Michael and myself are practically the only people here who respond to any of your posts.

Most people here do not respond to your posts because as your posts on this thread demonstrate: you are rude, aggressive and take other people's comments completely out of context. I am not even going to bother discussing the issues further with you because it is near impossible to discuss anything with someone who continually twists my words around, takes everything out of context and does not make sense. It does not make sense to say that my Hall of Fame criteria "are incorrect" while also admitting that you have no idea what the criteria actually are. So from now on, like everyone else, I am not going to bother responding to your posts.

[kevinuk81]

Gunner, if you don't know what the criteria is, then find out and let us all know.

[A_MichaelUK]

> I cannot recall the criteria exactly, I seem to recall it has to do with longevity and chart success.

Your recollection is wrong. Go and do some research.

[A_MichaelUK]

>Gunner, why are you so confident that Alice Cooper (band/solo) has not met the criteria?

>NO, I am not!

But you just said that you ARE!

[A_MichaelUK]

> Unfortunately his career is divided and ACG to 1974 is NOT the same as AC 1975 to present.

What's your point? I just want to make sure I understand what you're saying, because so far, I don't think even you know what it is that you're saying.

[pitkin88]

> Unfortunately his career is divided and ACG to 1974 is NOT the same as AC 1975 to present.

What's your point? I just want to make sure I understand what you're saying, because so far, I don't think even you know what it is that you're saying.

I'm going to take a stab at what I think Gunner means
( please feel free to correct me Gunner ). ACG where not around long emough to warrant being in HOF. Alice Cooper solo has not been successful enough to be in the HOF on his own merit. If the spilt hadn't have happened he/they would have met the criteria and been inducted.

Personally, I don't know why they/he hasn't. I seriously doubt it is because he is a Christian and a Republican. There's also no evidence to support that.

[pitkin88]

Here's what I found out on-line regarding the criteria:

In 1983, the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame Foundation was established by a group of music industry leaders. One of the main goals of the foundation was to recognize those who have played a significant role in the "evolution, development and perpetuation of rock and roll". Inductees enter the Hall Of Fame in one, or more, of four categories - Performers, Non-Performers, Early Influences, and Sidemen. There is also a special award available, the Lifetime Achievement Award. The first inductions took place in 1986.

Performers
Artists become eligible for induction 25 years after the release of their first recordings. The influence and significance of their contribution to rock and roll is the criteria. The nominating committee, composed of rock and roll historians, send ballots to about 1,000 rock and roll experts. Artists who receive the most votes, and more than 50% of the vote are inducted.

Non Performers
This category includes producers, disk jockeys, songwriters, record company executives, journalists, and other industy professionals who have had a significant impact on the development of rock and roll. They are voted in by a special selection committee.

Early Influences
This category includes artists whose music pre-date rock and roll but have inspired rock's leading artists and had a major impact on rock and roll. They are voted in by a special selection committee.

Sidemen
This category was introduced in 2000 to honor those musicians who have spent a career out of the spot light, backing up the stars in the studio and in concert. They have often played an important role in the development of memorable music but the public generally doesn't know who they are. A special committee comprised of mostly producers selects these inductees.

[glamprincess]

Personally, I don't know why they/he hasn't. I seriously doubt it is because he is a Christian and a Republican. There's also no evidence to support that.

I agree. A few people here may have thought Alice's politics were a possible contributor. I don't think anyone really thought his religion was a factor. Unfortunately, people's comments were twisted around and taken totally out of context. Personally, I don't think Alice's politics or religion are a factor. But it is a mystery why Alice Cooper has not been nominated and that's why people are confused.

The original band achieved plenty, have met the criteria and are certainly deserving of induction. It is irrelevant that the band split in 1974. Their achievements were far more than many other nominees/inductees.

[kevinuk81]

The Jimi Hendrix Experience are in there, but they only lasted 3 years and 3 studio albums, (Wikipedia), so how does the Alice Cooper group not qualify?

[glamprincess]

Here's what I found out on-line regarding the criteria:

Performers
Artists become eligible for induction 25 years after the release of their first recordings. The influence and significance of their contribution to rock and roll is the criteria.

That is exactly what I said were the criteria. But I was told that I was incorrect and I was completely dismissed. Thanks for confirming that what I said were the criteria actually are the criteria.

[MadameBondage]

Gunner, a few months ago, you kept asking why there was no response to your posts. There's a very good reason that people on this board do not respond to your posts. I decided to give you a chance and try to be helpful, so I was one of the only people here to respond to you. In fact, Andy Michael and myself are practically the only people here who respond to any of your posts.

Most people here do not respond to your posts because as your posts on this thread demonstrate: you are rude, aggressive and take other people's comments completely out of context. I am not even going to bother discussing the issues further with you because it is near impossible to discuss anything with someone who continually twists my words around, takes everything out of context and does not make sense. It does not make sense to say that my Hall of Fame criteria "are incorrect" while also admitting that you have no idea what the criteria actually are. So from now on, like everyone else, I am not going to bother responding to your posts.

I have to agree with you, Glam on all you said above. Most people are very confused when Gunner goes off on one. You and Andy try very hard to make sense of the twists and turns that he makes when he is challenged over some of the very odd things he says and it doesn't warrant him being insulting to either of you.

[WickedYoungMan]

I seem to recall it has to do with longevity and chart success.

Right, then Patti Smith definitely wouldn't be in there.

[Gunner]

Exactly what is the criteria? Do we know?? Anyone?
Again, it turns out to be a brain teaser (or people just being difficult for some reason) here. I seem to recall that an artist has had to have achieve a certain amount of success (not sure of that criteria) over a period of time. I seem to recall that ACG and Alice solo doesn't meet the criteria. I don't know what is so hard to understand about my point. Whatever, Alice Cooper should be considered as both band and artist in my opinion and is, if anything 'over qualified', his influence has been immense!!

With respect to it having something to do with being republic or following Christ's teachings, I can't believe that has even been suggested.