Did you jump on to the "TRASH" train...

[TonyfromNH]

Just kidding with ya: my daughter is only 9 and has only been "into" Alice for 3 years, but at 3 yrs old she was more into "Barney" and "pull-ups".

My 4 year old's favorite Alice song is "No More Mr. Nice Guy". Actually, that and "School's Out" are the only ones she knows at this point. She's been singing along to NMMNG in the car since even before she was 3 I think.

She'll sing just about the whole thing, but she always gets a big kick out of screaming to me when we get to that part of that song... "and Daddy you have to hide!"

That is very cool...a few more years and BAM! She will have it all down. I have spent a total of 4 hours in the car today with my daughter continuously "looping" EASY ACTION...and knowing it! I have to refer to her if can't remember a lyric on that one or PFY.

[glamprincess]

P.S. I never 'got' Barney

You never got a purple dinosaur that skips around and sings annoying songs like "I love you, you love me....."? How could you??!! Barney's feelings have been hurt and you need a time out....


I think it's funny that TonyfromNH's daughter went from Barney to Alice Cooper. I thought it was funny enough that I switched from David Cassidy to Alice Cooper. But Barney to Alice Cooper even tops mine!

[Dave Conway]

. Top!

[TonyfromNH]

I think it's funny that TonyfromNH's daughter went from Barney to Alice Cooper. I thought it was funny enough that I switched from David Cassidy to Alice Cooper. But Barney to Alice Cooper even tops mine!

Well, Barney to Spongebob, and since early 2006 ALICE.

David Cassidy huh? I just found a 45 that I had of Shaun Cassidy. What was I thinking? No wonder why I was beaten up so much as a kid.

[Prince Alice]

I heard Dragontown once and that was all she wrote! I had to have more after that! But it was my dad who baught the CD so it's all his fault

[WickedYoungMan]

By the way, did anyone realize that it has now been *twenty* years since this album came out?

[damiennalice]

Thanks for reminding me,Hoosier. I would have answered sooner but my walker got stuck in a carpet seam.

[glamprincess]

I would have answered sooner but my walker got stuck in a carpet seam.

Well I hope there are no carpet seams to get in the way of you getting to that show in Virginia!


Have fun at the show DA! Are you getting excited now?

[Gunner]

When the artist's music and lyrics move away from what his fans are familiar with, it leaves one wondering what the purpose of the change of direction is. It can only be for the following reason;

The artist wants a change of 'style' regardless of his fans approval.

The idea that the artist wants to generate a bigger demand and more financial success with record sales etc can be tied in with this, OR, it could simply be a case of style change as the likes of Queen, Bowie, Dylan, Genesis etc have demonstrated (Dylan sometimes doesn't even play what the audience wants..and this has nothing to do with supplying demand for commercial gain) to satisfy their own artistic needs. IF, as glamprincess claims; it is necessary to have a big hit in order to sustain one's rock music career in the long haul , and in order to do that you have to 'change style' - then isn't that referred to as 'selling out' in the music industry?? 'Selling out' demonstrates that the need for popularity is greater the need for an honest artistic outlet. IF, the idea to have a 'big hit' is to get more awareness and people into your other stuff, then by making a record that departs from your style kind of contradicts that somewhat and devalues the other work surely?

What has been claimed here is that; if it hadn't been for Trash, there would not be demand enough to warrant Alice Cooper tours these days? This is a rather serious assertion to make and devalues Alice Cooper's credibility as an artist. Think about it.

Also, I don’t agree with the statement that ‘it is necessary to have a big hit in order to sustain one's rock music career in the long haul’, I can think of a band that tours these days that paid to get off a big label that just wanted hits from them!

Those of you that believe that a poxy pop song holds Alice Cooper career together can't have a great deal of faith and belief in the artist's ability and suggest that his work is simply not credible.

I know for a fact that if Alice Cooper toured Dada with just a band, I would go and it would also justify a world tour of the clubs – that would beat any show he does these days for me.

[glamprincess]

Firstly, Gunner, I did NOT say that Trash/Poison was needed to sustain Alice Cooper's career in the long haul. I think Alice Cooper had enough great hits from the 1970s to give him longevity in the business regardless of the extra success he got from Trash/Poison.

I was referring to Alice's "Hits" in the plural. I meant that his huge catalogue of hits have contributed to his status as a rock icon and have made it possible for him to still headline successful tours after four decades in the business. His hits like Eighteen, School's Out, No More Mr. Nice Guy, Only Women Bleed, etc. from enduring classic albums like LitD, Killer, SO, BDB and WtMN have definitely given him a revered place in the annals of rock n' roll and the ability to continue as a viable musical act. I said that Trash was an added bonus but I think his 70s classics were enough to give him his longevity.

Alice didn't need to prove himself beyond the classic 70s stuff but it is good that he continues to put out quality work and even had continual success after the 70s with Trash and other post-70s albums. So I do maintain that hit songs are important in order for a rock act to continue to attract substantial crowds, especially for more than four decades.

While a club tour where Alice plays "Dada" instead may be more satisfactory to you, it would probably not be financially viable and I don't understand why you think Alice Cooper should go out and "lose" money instead? And I don't think 99% of the fans would prefer this situation either.

[A_MichaelUK]

>then isn't that referred to as 'selling out' in the music industry??

It probably depends on who you ask.

>IF, the idea to have a 'big hit' is to get more awareness and people into your other stuff, then by making a record that departs from your style kind of contradicts that somewhat and devalues the other work surely?

No it doesn't. Is that a problem you’ve had with all the albums you’ve made?!

>Also, I don’t agree with the statement that ‘it is necessary to have a big hit in order to sustain one's rock music career in the long haul’,

That’s true, but it doesn’t hurt though. You can’t deny that “Poison” was a massive boost. Without it, Alice may not have been playing bigger venues for the next few tours.

>I know for a fact that if Alice Cooper toured Dada with just a band, I would go and it would also justify a world tour of the clubs – that would beat any show he does these days for me.

I’m not sure what this has to do with the rest of your post, but leaving that aside, I do think the whole debate about ‘selling – out’ is pretty irrelevant because at some point, you have to connect with an audience and if you don’t, then you don’t have a career, in which case, you can stay at home and make music that no – one will hear. I’ve seen this scenario so many times over the years and especially during punk – the obsession with deliberately not being accessible to the mainstream is elitism of the worst kind (and yes, it can be just as bad to totally compromise for the sake of a hit record). I’m all for artists being self – indulgent and refusing to compromise in any way, but I don’t want to hear about them complaining that no – one gets to hear their music. They can’t have it both ways, so a balance has to be struck (and that’s something that sometimes is missing from certain posts).

[MadameBondage]

While a club tour where Alice plays "Dada" instead may be more satisfactory to you, it would probably not be financially viable and I don't understand why you think Alice Cooper should go out and "lose" money instead? And I don't think 99% of the fans would prefer this situation either.

Exactly Glam! What artist in his right mind would want to do that?! I also agree that the majority of Alice's fans wouldn't want or expect it either.

[RemarkablyInsincere]

While a club tour where Alice plays "Dada" instead may be more satisfactory to you,

I can just imagine the expression on the vast majority of the audience if Alice did a show consisting entirely of DaDa.

[A_MichaelUK]

>What artist in his right mind would want to do that?!

It's a big risk to take and I admire any artist who takes that risk (as David Bowie did in 1995) but I don't want to hear them complaining if the audience is not satisfied. As Jon Bon Jovi said with reference to Kurt Cobain (I'm paraphrasing), if you don't want to be famous, don't release records or go on tour. Just stay home and make music for your own enjoyment.

[MadameBondage]

>What artist in his right mind would want to do that?!

It's a big risk to take and I admire any artist who takes that risk (as David Bowie did in 1995) but I don't want to hear them complaining if the audience is not satisfied. As Jon Bon Jovi said with reference to Kurt Cobain (I'm paraphrasing), if you don't want to be famous, don't release records or go on tour. Just stay home and make music for your own enjoyment.

I imagine Jon Bon's words were a tad more 'colourful' but, seriously I take your point and I totally agree

[Petri]

Again, conceivably someone that is only let's say 26 wouldn't even remember the radio time that "Poison" got, much like I don't remember the radio time that "School's Out" got. With radio and video play pretty much gone for Alice I just am curious as to what first "sparked" the new generation of Sick Thing's.

Although I'm only 26, I'm not sure if I belong to the new generation of Sickies since I became a fan of Alice during the Trash period.

[NotSoPerfect]

Those of you that believe that a poxy pop song holds Alice Cooper career together can't have a great deal of faith and belief in the artist's ability and suggest that his work is simply not credible.

I don't think anyone is saying that the song holds his career together, at this point. But, there's a lot to be said for a hit that keeps an artist in the spotlight and larger public consciousness, so that they can continue to do what they want. If that were the only thing holding his career together, then he still wouldn't be where he is today, because people would have continued to expect THAT Alice. Obviously, there are lots of fans, casual and not, that are OK with a larger cross-section of Alice's music.

Even if Alice was using the popular music themes of the day to his advantage, he did it well...and that's the important part about that album, I think. Any artist can TRY to go with the current trend, but nothing says they'll be successful/good at it. Clearly, Alice was.

--

Funny side note....I was 8 years old when "Trash" came out, and honestly? I do NOT have any conscious memory of having EVER heard "Poison" until September 2005 at my first Alice show. I was really confused when he started singing it and my brother knew the words. Likewise, my brother was surprised I didn't. I guess I just never heard it on the radio!

[Gunner]

>then isn't that referred to as 'selling out' in the music industry??

It probably depends on who you ask.

OK then, I won't call it 'selling out' if that term is not to be understood generally, it's only a term. Is it then 'compromising of one's integrity, morality and principles in exchange for money, 'success' (however defined) or other personal gain'?

>IF, the idea to have a 'big hit' is to get more awareness and people into your other stuff, then by making a record that departs from your style kind of contradicts that somewhat and devalues the other work surely?

No it doesn't.

Oh yes it does!! If you want people to get into your work, do you present them with something quite different as being representative of your work? It kind of says that 'I can only get financial success by not doing what I normally do'!

Is that a problem you’ve had with all the albums you’ve made?!

No, I've written, played and performed songs and never felt the need to try and write something more 'accessible' so that people would listen to the other stuff!?

>Also, I don’t agree with the statement that ‘it is necessary to have a big hit in order to sustain one's rock music career in the long haul’,

That’s true, but it doesn’t hurt though. You can’t deny that “Poison” was a massive boost. Without it, Alice may not have been playing bigger venues for the next few tours.

Poison was a boost to Alice's commercial career, yes, what exactly have the benefits of that been? This is essentially my point Andy.

I do think the whole debate about ‘selling – out’ is pretty irrelevant because at some point, you have to connect with an audience and if you don’t, then you don’t have a career, in which case, you can stay at home and make music that no – one will hear.

The point I was making about Dada is that, it is probably his most commercially inaccessible products since 'Easy Action' and a very favourite of his fans! He could tour with that these days and get and audience, even if Trash hadn't happened for example. He didn't need Trash to get an audience today at all!

Alice always connected with his audiance, there was no need for a poxy 'hair metal' pop ditty and to debase the lyrics

I’ve seen this scenario so many times over the years and especially during punk – the obsession with deliberately not being accessible to the mainstream is elitism of the worst kind (and yes, it can be just as bad to totally compromise for the sake of a hit record). I’m all for artists being self – indulgent and refusing to compromise in any way, but I don’t want to hear about them complaining that no – one gets to hear their music. They can’t have it both ways, so a balance has to be struck (and that’s something that sometimes is missing from certain posts).

NO, YOU can't have it both ways. Isn't it a contradiction in terms, a paradox (if you like) to change one's music so that they'll listen to the music that they have changed FROM??? You're kind of missing my point here Andy....and to use your words;

(and that’s something that sometimes is missing from certain posts).

[A_MichaelUK]

>OK then, I won't call it 'selling out' if that term is not to be understood generally,

I understand what it means. I'm not sure how you are applying it, that's all.

>Is it then 'compromising of one's integrity, morality and principles in exchange for money, 'success' (however defined) or other personal gain'?

The answer is still the same, though. It depends on who you ask.

>Oh yes it does!!

You need to calm down. It’s not pantomime season, as far as I know. Prove to us how departing “from your style” means that you devalue everything else. You have a strange way of seeing things in strict black and white terms. The world doesn’t work like that.

>It kind of says that 'I can only get financial success by not doing what I normally do'!

Again, it depends on who you ask. Your use of the word “only” shows how inflexible your argument is.

>No, I've written, played and performed songs and never felt the need to try and write something more 'accessible' so that people would listen to the other stuff!?

Tell us about this audience that you play to!

>Poison was a boost to Alice's commercial career, yes, what exactly have the benefits of that been?

What “benefits” would you like to have seen?!

>This is essentially my point Andy.

What “point” is that? You’re not explaining yourself very well. What is it about “Poison” that seems cause you so much distress?

>The point I was making about Dada is that, it is probably his most commercially inaccessible products since 'Easy Action' and a very favourite of his fans!

Who says so?! Again, you’re making a vague generalisation and presenting it as a fact that applies in all cases! Just because Alice says some of the hard – core audience like “Dada” doesn’t mean that everyone who goes to see him likes it as well.

>He could tour with that these days and get and audience,

A small one, yes. Are you sure you’re not GailsFriend in disguise?

>He didn't need Trash to get an audience today at all!

So why is it that “Poison” gets pretty much the biggest cheer at any Alice show, then?

>Alice always connected with his audiance,

So why wasn't he selling many records in the ten years or so before "Trash" came out, then?!

>there was no need for a poxy 'hair metal' pop ditty and to debase the lyrics

You’re making less sense than usual. Which “lyrics” were debased?

>NO, YOU can't have it both ways.

So,if you agree with me, WHAT point are you making?!

>Isn't it a contradiction in terms, a paradox (if you like) to change one's music so that they'll listen to the music that they have changed FROM???

WHY is it?

>You're kind of missing my point here Andy

I’m not denying that. I have absolutely no idea what it is you’re talking about. If you don’t like “Poison”, that’s fine. If you think Alice ‘sold out’ that’s fine too, although as I keep saying, it depends on who you ask. What is your point?

[MadameBondage]

>>I have absolutely no idea what it is you’re talking about. If you don’t like “Poison”, that’s fine. If you think Alice ‘sold out’ that’s fine too, although as I keep saying, it depends on who you ask. What is your point?<<

My sentiments exactly Andy! Gunner's argument IS extremely confusing