SickthingsUK

While Heaven Wept wrote:

mattcoddington wrote:let this be a lesson to all - pedophilia and drug addictions will earn you a 4 million dollar funeral. paid for by tax payers.

What an outrageous and totally offensive comment

You misspelled accurate...

While Heaven Wept wrote: Excuse me but i thought we were discussing music here?

Well I guess some could refer to it as "Making Music"

mattcoddington wrote:

steven_crayn wrote:Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? he was acquitted.

yup. we, in the u.s. call that 'celebrity justice.'

steven_crayn wrote: Michael Jackson because of his lack of a childhood growing up made bad decisions with his relationships with children trying to recapture a lost childhood, but that doesn't make him a pedophile.

yeah, actually it does!

It's interesting that you bring up "celebrity justice" as there are books and major discussions arising over this topic. There seems to be a trend that celebrities are being acquitted of crimes even when the evidence has been considered to be overwhelming. Two famous cases involve OJ Simpson and Robert Blake who were both acquitted of murder even though some believe that regular people have been convicted of murder with far less evidence than what was presented in those trials. There is a growing concern that celebrities may be literally able to get away with murder because juries are so starstruck that they ignore a lot of the evidence. The jury was considered to have even ignored DNA evidence in the OJ Simpson criminal case even though DNA evidence is considered practically the best evidence that can be obtained. And Michael Jackson definitely got "celebrity justice" too because think about this: do you really believe that a regular guy could admit to sharing his bed with 10 year old boys for "sleepovers" and get an acquittal? Also, don't forget that there was a previous case which was settled out of court with Michael paying 20 million dollars which seems like an awful lot of money to pay when one is innocent.

>As for the comments on the long-form video, i wasn't talking about who did it first, i simply stated that no-one produced anything quite like Thriller before Michael Jackson......fact

You used the word "before", though.

Parish wrote:For all of you defending him I ask you this.

Would you let a relative of yours sleep over in his bed, yes or no?

Absolutely not. And for that reason you have to wonder about the accusations against him. WHY did people let their kids stay with him? Because of his celebrity status and the fact that they could rip him off at a later date? I personally think so.

Lost childhood, strict father. I don't think the guy ever had the chance to grow up normally.

Musically, I never understood where his iconic status came from. Yes, he was a good dancer, singer etc - but notice in THRILLER - all his dancers are equally as good as he is.

Still - he was a 'middle of the road' entertainer, which as we all know appeals to the masses and not like us freaks that hang about here!

Still you know, rest his soul. Its history in our lifetime I guess. And I'm not still convinced that he is off with Elvis on some deserted beach somewhere!

You don't think a conspiracy is afoot do you HB?

Oh God YES!!!

Come on Kevin - don't you just know that God awful coffin gold plated thingy was empty last night??

Aliens just landed in my front garden too - gotta dash!!

While Heaven Wept wrote:
Why do you find it strange? This whole topic is about Michael Jackson is it not?

As for the comments on the long-form video, i wasn't talking about who did it first, i simply stated that no-one produced anything quite like Thriller before Michael Jackson......fact.

I found the comment strange because Alice Cooper did a quality long-form video BEFORE Michael Jackson and you said that no one did it BEFORE Michael Jackson. So what you are saying is not a "fact". Oh and by the way, Alice used a "horror" theme with Vincent Price BEFORE Michael Jackson....now that is a FACT!

Parish wrote:
Barry Manilow
The Beatles
Paul McCartney ( solo )
CCR
Bread
Madonna
Eagles

and theres more...

You could probably add Elton John to the list. He is a great singer and songwriter and had tons of great pop songs.

steven_crayn wrote:
I have no argument that the Stones and even more so the Beatles made even greater songs than Jackson, but I was talking in terms of a solo artist and really only Elvis is on that level in terms of impact.
Yeah the media do make a lot more of things now but we are in a media age.
The fact remains he was a great singer/dancer and songwriter with a vision for the visual one of the true greats.

Totally agree with you about Alice.
I think because of the theatrical genius of the man he tends to get overlooked as songwriter and singer.
Even Bob Dylan said Alice Cooper was a overlooked lyricist.

I think Dick Wagner put it well on the Alice Prime Cuts Video when he talked about his importance.

Also Al Pitrelli pointed out in an interview in Guitarist magazine how people tend to underate Alice as a singer but that his pitching and timing were great.

Thanks for sharing Al Pitrelli's comment about Alice's singing with us, Steven. That's quite interesting to hear.

I do agree with you that Michael Jackson was a hugely talented entertainer. But I don't think it matters whether a rock/pop act is a solo act or group. I still think The Beatles deserve to be the "Kings of Pop" more than Jackson does. And as far as solo acts, Elvis Presley and Bob Dylan were not less important than Michael Jackson either. I do think Michael Jackson deserves to be considered a great entertainer. But the greatest ever? I think the media is going overboard.

Headbangers Ball wrote:Oh God YES!!!

Come on Kevin - don't you just know that God awful coffin gold plated thingy was empty last night??

Aliens just landed in my front garden too - gotta dash!!

HB, you know there's bound to be Michael "sightings" at the mall.....

glamprincess wrote:It's interesting that you bring up "celebrity justice" as there are books and major discussions arising over this topic. There seems to be a trend that celebrities are being acquitted of crimes even when the evidence has been considered to be overwhelming. Two famous cases involve OJ Simpson and Robert Blake who were both acquitted of murder even though some believe that regular people have been convicted of murder with far less evidence than what was presented in those trials. There is a growing concern that celebrities may be literally able to get away with murder because juries are so starstruck that they ignore a lot of the evidence. The jury was considered to have even ignored DNA evidence in the OJ Simpson criminal case even though DNA evidence is considered practically the best evidence that can be obtained. And Michael Jackson definitely got "celebrity justice" too because think about this: do you really believe that a regular guy could admit to sharing his bed with 10 year old boys for "sleepovers" and get an acquittal? Also, don't forget that there was a previous case which was settled out of court with Michael paying 20 million dollars which seems like an awful lot of money to pay when one is innocent.

all great points. i love the law, but hate the justice system.

i also believe there is a large amount of 'white guilt' within the u.s. population. o.j., michael, rodney king, osama... i mean, obama.

Let's be careful with what we're saying here as per board rules and try to remain on topic.

Thanks

As has beem suggested, can we try and keep this on topic (ie ALICE) rather then go off at tangents. While it's all interesting stuff, The subject is Alice's relationship with Jackson, not anything Jackson may or may not have done in the past or whether he was the "king of pop", unless it directly relates to Alice's discription.

Thanks

hope this doesn't count as going off on a tangent, but...

there was an interesting Alice piece in a newspaper here in Melbourne last week, where Alice stated "I can tell you this, there's no way Michael Jackson slept with a kid." He cites the usual "bad childhood" story and states he knew Michael since Michael was 8 years old etc.

Not that it matters, but I totally disagree with Alice and think he was being politically correct...you know, not nice to kick a guy while he's down.

He also said that Michael "apologised" for using Vincent Price on Thriller. Again, I think this is a bit of a fabrication, but then again who knows...

glamprincess wrote:

Parish wrote:
Barry Manilow
The Beatles
Paul McCartney ( solo )
CCR
Bread
Madonna
Eagles

and theres more...

You could probably add Elton John to the list. He is a great singer and songwriter and had tons of great pop songs.

Exactly! Like I said there is at least a dozen of artists that fot the "King(s) Of Pop" moniker much better...

Si wrote:As has beem suggested, can we try and keep this on topic (ie ALICE) rather then go off at tangents. While it's all interesting stuff, The subject is Alice's relationship with Jackson, not anything Jackson may or may not have done in the past or whether he was the "king of pop", unless it directly relates to Alice's discription.
Thanks

You are totally right, Si, as this is an Alice Cooper board and it's important to keep the discussions Alice-related. I do think though, that some discussion about whether Michael Jackson is overrated by the media does have relevance because it demonstrates how the media can overrate or underrate an entertainer and that does tie into points over the years about how Alice Cooper has been underrated. Some discussion about other celebrities getting too much credit can sometimes be relevant in that it can demonstrate a comparison or contrast with how Alice is treated. For example, I think in this case, the fact that the media is calling Michael Jackson "the king of pop" demonstrates the power of the media and it's ability to influence the public's perception of a rock star. And it also therefore demonstrates how the media can give credit to the wrong people which does tie into Alice Cooper and how he has not been recognized by the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame. You are right in that people should not stray too much on a tangent, but some discussion about other rock stars can demonstrate points that have been made over the years about Alice Cooper.