Alice comments on Michael Jackson

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glamprincess
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Re: Alice comments on Michael Jackson

Post by glamprincess » Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:21 pm

While Heaven Wept wrote: And no-one produced a quality long-form video like Thriller before Jackson.
Very strange that you would post that comment on an Alice Cooper board!! For your information, Alice Cooper was nominated for a Grammy award in 1984 for "Best Long-Form Video" because his ground-breaking Welcome to My Nightmare from 1975 was finally released on video in 1983. It was nominated because Welcome to My Nightmare was considered the first long-form video in rock music. It was also considered both high quality and ground-breaking. So your comment is very strange on an Alice Cooper board. And ultimately ironic because Thriller was horror with Vincent Price just like.....Welcome to My Nightmare! So the above comment should read: And no one produced a quality long-form video like Welcome to My Nightmare before Alice Cooper!
Last edited by glamprincess on Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Alice comments on Michael Jackson

Post by Parish » Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:23 pm

glamprincess wrote:So the above comment should read: And no one produced a quality long-form video like Welcome to My Nightmare before Alice Cooper!
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Re: Alice comments on Michael Jackson

Post by daytripper » Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:43 pm

Today in the paper...it said he was better than the King Of Pop...." he is the BEST ENERTAINER ever" :(
I had to choke on that one.
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Re: Alice comments on Michael Jackson

Post by glamprincess » Wed Jul 08, 2009 12:26 am

daytripper wrote:Today in the paper...it said he was better than the King Of Pop...." he is the BEST ENERTAINER ever" :(
I had to choke on that one.
I know daytripper. I was just watching television coverage and someone said Michael was "the greatest entertainer ever of any generation, greatest in the history of the world". They are turning him into some kind of a god...it's getting more and more ridiculous. It's not like he found the cure for cancer...he's just a singer and a dancer....
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Re: Alice comments on Michael Jackson

Post by mattcoddington » Wed Jul 08, 2009 12:28 am

let this be a lesson to all - pedophilia and drug addictions will earn you a 4 million dollar funeral. paid for by tax payers.

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Re: Alice comments on Michael Jackson

Post by A_MichaelUK » Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:41 am

>If a "friend" of yours was trying to do something would >you...
>A) Try and help them
>or
>B) Bid against them

Well, considering McCartney by his own admission didn't have a problem with Jackson bidding so high, maybe you should tell McCartney he's being too kind. You're obviously more outraged about it than he was. McCartneys' complaint against Jackson wasn't that Jackson was the winner in that auction, but with what Jackson did after he won it.

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Re: Alice comments on Michael Jackson

Post by Parish » Wed Jul 08, 2009 12:28 pm

I'm not outraged at all brother, really. Just trying to put MJ into perspective regarding his character without all the HIS-torical revisionism contaminating the truth.

I'm finished with this one now, may he rest in peace...

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Re: Alice comments on Michael Jackson

Post by steven_crayn » Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:05 pm

mattcoddington wrote:let this be a lesson to all - pedophilia and drug addictions will earn you a 4 million dollar funeral. paid for by tax payers.
Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? he was acquitted.

Michael Jackson because of his lack of a childhood growing up made bad decisions with his relationships with children trying to recapture a lost childhood, but that doesn't make him a pedophile.
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Re: Alice comments on Michael Jackson

Post by steven_crayn » Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:10 pm

Parish wrote:
steven_crayn wrote:
This has got to be one of the most stupid things I have ever read.

Are you for real?

Just a few number ones as a solo artist?!
Everything you have listed excluding his work with the J5 I thought was incredibly lame, sorry just my opinion. Album sales mean nothing as proven by the Britney Spears of the world. Doesnt make them a "great artist"
Yes but commercial success doesn't exclude you, Schools Out was a great song and a commercial success.

Man In The Mirror etc... lame I don't think so but it is all down to personal taste.

What you can't dispute is that the King Of Pop tag was justified and your idea that you can name a dozen artists more deserving of that tag is frankly idiotic!
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Re: Alice comments on Michael Jackson

Post by Parish » Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:21 pm

steven_crayn wrote:And your idea that you can name a dozen artists more deserving of that tag is frankly idiotic!
Barry Manilow
The Beatles
Paul McCartney ( solo )
CCR
Bread
Madonna
Eagles

and theres more...

are all acts with several hit POP songs that were MUCH better than anything Jackson ever did as a solo artist.

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Re: Alice comments on Michael Jackson

Post by steven_crayn » Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:33 pm

Gunner wrote:
With the help of producer Quincy Jones The 'Off The Wall' & 'Thriller' albums did break new ground, blending a strong Jazz influence into such a commercial context which had never been done with as much success before.
Sorry, I don't buy that at all. When they say 'he changed pop music', just how exactly?
As for video he certainly took it to a new level with Thriller with the help of John Landis and the American Werewolf In London influence.
Nah, Adam Ant took it to a 'new level'. Anyway, the claim is 'he created pop video', a 'new level' is a different claim. The guy was very overrated and over credited for stuff. We feel the need to create 'gods' like these.
Stand And Deliver was a ground breaking video by Adam Ant but if you trying to suggest that Thriller didn't take video to a new level your argument is flogging a dead horse as it clearly did.

I don't think Jackson created the pop video but he did take it to a new level, just as Alice with Elected and Queen with Bohemian Rhapsody had done previously.

As for changing pop music the sound on those Off The Wall & Thriller albums with the Jazz influence adapted for pop sensibilities was certainly different to what had gone before.
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Re: Alice comments on Michael Jackson

Post by steven_crayn » Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:41 pm

Parish wrote:
steven_crayn wrote:And your idea that you can name a dozen artists more deserving of that tag is frankly idiotic!
Barry Manilow
The Beatles
Paul McCartney ( solo )
CCR
Bread
Madonna
Eagles

and theres more...

are all acts with several hit POP songs that were MUCH better than anything Jackson ever did as a solo artist.
Madonna! don't make me laugh, a distinct lack of quality and one worthy of the hype tag some of you are attributing to Jackson who always had quality.

The Beatles were a band and no one is disputing they were the Kings Of Pop/Rock as a band.
The Eagles once again a great band but hardly pop more country rock

As for Bread and CCR once again we are talking groups but come on even though they made some good records if you are going to have a King Of Pop tab even as a group commerciasl success is a factor and they cant compare on that level.

Barry Manilow a successful artist sure but not more worthy as a king of pop tag, Copa Cobana a great song though!
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Re: Alice comments on Michael Jackson

Post by Parish » Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:47 pm

steven_crayn wrote:Jackson who always had quality
We agree to disagree

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Re: Alice comments on Michael Jackson

Post by steven_crayn » Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:53 pm

glamprincess wrote: I'm going to have to agree with Gunner here. While I think Michael Jackson was a hugely talented singer and performer, I do think the media has exaggerated his importance and turned him into some kind of godlike figure to the point that it's gotten ridiculous.

I think the reason may have to do with the fact that disco caused rock/pop music to have a dearth of superstars and the media wanted another "superstar" so they pounced on Michael Jackson and went overboard with the accolades. Michael Jackson did indeed have some great songs, but he did not have nearly as many great songs as the Beatles and the Rolling Stones yet media-types have even taken to calling him "the greatest entertainer in the world". While he was a great entertainer, calling him the greatest is going overboard and giving him some mythical status.

Michael Jackson is an example of how the media takes a talented entertainer and overrates him to the point of turning him into some godlike creature. And Alice Cooper is at the other end of the spectrum: he is a talented entertainer too but the media now underrates his role in rock history.
I have no argument that the Stones and even more so the Beatles made even greater songs than Jackson, but I was talking in terms of a solo artist and really only Elvis is on that level in terms of impact.
Yeah the media do make a lot more of things now but we are in a media age.
The fact remains he was a great singer/dancer and songwriter with a vision for the visual one of the true greats.

Totally agree with you about Alice.
I think because of the theatrical genius of the man he tends to get overlooked as songwriter and singer.
Even Bob Dylan said Alice Cooper was a overlooked lyricist.

I think Dick Wagner put it well on the Alice Prime Cuts Video when he talked about his importance.

Also Al Pitrelli pointed out in an interview in Guitarist magazine how people tend to underate Alice as a singer but that his pitching and timing were great.
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Re: Alice comments on Michael Jackson

Post by mattcoddington » Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:14 pm

steven_crayn wrote:Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? he was acquitted.
yup. we, in the u.s. call that 'celebrity justice.'
steven_crayn wrote: Michael Jackson because of his lack of a childhood growing up made bad decisions with his relationships with children trying to recapture a lost childhood, but that doesn't make him a pedophile.
yeah, actually it does!

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Re: Alice comments on Michael Jackson

Post by kevinuk81 » Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:22 pm

How?
Anything I say or write is my own personal opinion, no matter who agrees or disagrees with me.

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Re: Alice comments on Michael Jackson

Post by Parish » Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:24 pm

For all of you defending him I ask you this.

Would you let a relative of yours sleep over in his bed, yes or no?

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Re: Alice comments on Michael Jackson

Post by While Heaven Wept » Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:29 pm

mattcoddington wrote:let this be a lesson to all - pedophilia and drug addictions will earn you a 4 million dollar funeral. paid for by tax payers.
What an outrageous and totally offensive comment

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Re: Alice comments on Michael Jackson

Post by While Heaven Wept » Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:30 pm

Parish wrote:For all of you defending him I ask you this.

Would you let a relative of yours sleep over in his bed, yes or no?
Excuse me but i thought we were discussing music here?

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Re: Alice comments on Michael Jackson

Post by While Heaven Wept » Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:33 pm

glamprincess wrote:
While Heaven Wept wrote: And no-one produced a quality long-form video like Thriller before Jackson.
Very strange that you would post that comment on an Alice Cooper board!!
Why do you find it strange? This whole topic is about Michael Jackson is it not?

As for the comments on the long-form video, i wasn't talking about who did it first, i simply stated that no-one produced anything quite like Thriller before Michael Jackson......fact.

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