new kiss album this fall-uh oh

[glamprincess]

Some Alice fans are so bitter about KISS' success.

I don't think it's that some Alice fans are bitter. What bothers some Alice fans is that Alice Cooper brought theatre into rock n' roll in an original and clever way and then Kiss came along and "dumbed it down". Alice fans just don't like when the public starts to lump Kiss and Alice Cooper together without realizing that Alice Cooper was always much more artistic, innovative and thought-provoking. I think even Kiss fans have to admit that there is truth to this.

[Baz]

I`ve always been of the impression that some Alice fans may not have given Kiss a fair crack of the whip, music wise , and may have had the `they`re just copying Alice` mentality.
There`s no denying, that Kiss haven`t given Alice the credit he deserves for the influences, but to think that they haven`t written some great stuff is being a bit blinkered.

[Shoesalesman]

Just my two bits here, but sometimes those who influence others don't need the praise... I'm sure Alice knows who he's influenced, maybe that's good enough for him. The fact that Alice takes jabs at KISS without severely putting them down or discrediting them in an outright rude, disrespectful manner (like other bands or performers would or could do) maybe speaks of Alice's comfort level with the whole thing.

[glamprincess]

Just my two bits here, but sometimes those who influence others don't need the praise... I'm sure Alice knows who he's influenced, maybe that's good enough for him. The fact that Alice takes jabs at KISS without severely putting them down or discrediting them in an outright rude, disrespectful manner (like other bands or performers would or could do) maybe speaks of Alice's comfort level with the whole thing.

I don't know if it's so much about his comfort level with things. I think it's due more to the fact that Alice is just way too cool and has too much class to do otherwise.

[aliceclone12]

Just my two bits here, but sometimes those who influence others don't need the praise... I'm sure Alice knows who he's influenced, maybe that's good enough for him. The fact that Alice takes jabs at KISS without severely putting them down or discrediting them in an outright rude, disrespectful manner (like other bands or performers would or could do) maybe speaks of Alice's comfort level with the whole thing.

I don't know if it's so much about his comfort level with things. I think it's due more to the fact that Alice is just way too cool and has too much class to do otherwise.

and teh fact that kiss suck dont forget

[Baz]

Just my two bits here, but sometimes those who influence others don't need the praise... I'm sure Alice knows who he's influenced, maybe that's good enough for him. The fact that Alice takes jabs at KISS without severely putting them down or discrediting them in an outright rude, disrespectful manner (like other bands or performers would or could do) maybe speaks of Alice's comfort level with the whole thing.

Maybe after all this time, he doesn`t really care about it too much, after all, he`s spent most of his career not getting praise where its due.

[glamprincess]

Maybe after all this time, he doesn`t really care about it too much, after all, he`s spent most of his career not getting praise where its due.

But just because he's used to not getting his due, doesn't mean that he no longer needs to be recognized. As I said earlier though, I think he's just too cool to make a big issue about it.

[A_MichaelUK]

>I'm sure Alice knows who he's influenced,

The general public might not, though.

[Baz]

Maybe after all this time, he doesn`t really care about it too much, after all, he`s spent most of his career not getting praise where its due.

But just because he's used to not getting his due, doesn't mean that he no longer needs to be recognized. As I said earlier though, I think he's just too cool to make a big issue about it.

I wasn`t suggesting for a mo that he shouldn`t get recognised, just that maybe its not such a big issue to him personally.

[RemarkablyInsincere]

I don't think it's that some Alice fans are bitter. What bothers some Alice fans is that Alice Cooper brought theatre into rock n' roll in an original and clever way and then Kiss came along and "dumbed it down".

I'd say a certain person's posts in this thread certainly came off as not only bitter but unnecessary.

But as far as what you say, that's one way of looking at it, but to me it's not "dumbed down" but rather they're really different in their approach and their objectives when on stage.

Knock them all you want, but I think both Kiss and Alice have more than proven that they're both legendary artists over a span of nearly 40 years for both.

You'll get no argument from me that Alice was certainly an influence on Kiss... Ace and Peter have both acknowleged this in recent years. Gene and Paul both have huge egos so it doesn't surprise me that they haven't gone out of their way to praise Alice... although if the question were put to them I imagine they would.

[RemarkablyInsincere]

On another note.... ask Chuck and Eric if they like Kiss.

[Jaded]

On another note.... ask Chuck and Eric if they like Kiss.

I like Chuck.. Does that count?

[RemarkablyInsincere]

On another note.... ask Chuck and Eric if they like Kiss.

I like Chuck.. Does that count?

Yes, probably... Chuck is your God of Thunder.

[glamprincess]

I don't think it's that some Alice fans are bitter. What bothers some Alice fans is that Alice Cooper brought theatre into rock n' roll in an original and clever way and then Kiss came along and "dumbed it down".

I'd say a certain person's posts in this thread certainly came off as not only bitter but unnecessary.

But as far as what you say, that's one way of looking at it, but to me it's not "dumbed down" but rather they're really different in their approach and their objectives when on stage.

Knock them all you want, but I think both Kiss and Alice have more than proven that they're both legendary artists over a span of nearly 40 years for both.

You'll get no argument from me that Alice was certainly an influence on Kiss... Ace and Peter have both acknowleged this in recent years. Gene and Paul both have huge egos so it doesn't surprise me that they haven't gone out of their way to praise Alice... although if the question were put to them I imagine they would.

I understand where you are coming from. And I'm not going to slag Kiss but I will say that it does bother some Alice fans that Alice Cooper and Kiss get lumped together when Alice Cooper was really the forerunner.

And I'm sure you can understand why some Alice fans might not like that the public doesn't always realize that Alice is the forerunner. Simply because Alice does deserve the recognition for his role as the originator.

You're right in that Ace and Peter have been much more forthcoming about admitting the Alice influence and that Gene and Paul have been less inclined to do so. Ace and Peter have been much more fair about it, no question. I remember watching Family Jewels and Gene's explanation to his daughter about why he does stuff onstage made it seem like Kiss started the whole theatrical-rock thing. I have to admit that that made me cringe a bit.

[Shoesalesman]

Just my two bits here, but sometimes those who influence others don't need the praise... I'm sure Alice knows who he's influenced, maybe that's good enough for him. The fact that Alice takes jabs at KISS without severely putting them down or discrediting them in an outright rude, disrespectful manner (like other bands or performers would or could do) maybe speaks of Alice's comfort level with the whole thing.

I don't know if it's so much about his comfort level with things. I think it's due more to the fact that Alice is just way too cool and has too much class to do otherwise.

The length of time this has been going on between Alice and KISS may speak of the possible comfort Alice may have with the issue. But after re-reading my original post I agree "class" comes across better than "comfort". Good call.

[RemarkablyInsincere]

I remember watching Family Jewels and Gene's explanation to his daughter about why he does stuff onstage made it seem like Kiss started the whole theatrical-rock thing. I have to admit that that made me cringe a bit.

Gene has no problem stretching the truth or even outright lying about things. I think he views it as part of his whole "schtick"... the whole larger than life PT Barnum type huckster thing he does... part of his over the top persona. He must justify it that way, but I've grown tired of it, along with a lot of other long time Kiss fans.

But Gene is such a contradiction too... I've met him a handful of times... some paid.. some free... and he's been extremely nice and gracious every single time... he really went out of his way to make you feel good... looking you in the eye and really listening to what you had to say.

[glamprincess]

But Gene is such a contradiction too... I've met him a handful of times... some paid.. some free... and he's been extremely nice and gracious every single time... he really went out of his way to make you feel good... looking you in the eye and really listening to what you had to say.

From what I've always heard, with Kiss "it's all about the fans" and I give Kiss a lot of credit for that.

[Shoesalesman]

Gene's been here three times in the last year or so for the Grand Prix and other promotional things... seemed approachable and content to hang out with folks.

[Gunner]

I don't know if it's so much about his comfort level with things. I think it's due more to the fact that Alice is just way too cool and has too much class to do otherwise.

No, actually, I think it IS a 'comfort level', he has a certain worldview and philosophy that affords a kind of 'comfort'. He may well take comfort in the fact that WE know the truth, he knows the truth. But, it is however, frustrating that there are injustices, but we live with them all the time. 'Reap what you sow', I always say. 'Alice Cooper' is a household word in the UK. He (and ACG) have had top ten single success KISS could not BEGIN to match and Cooper is invited on prime time TV shows KISS would never be - that says a lot!!

KISS have been a very clever and manipulative marketing machine, one of the very best actually. They were very into selling 'KISS' as a product. I do respect Gene and Paul for that in a sense, it's pretty clever in that respect. Their music, lyrics and show is VERY basic and it does irritate me a tad when they get 'lumped' with Alice Cooper, I suppose and analogy might be to mention Bon Jovi and Springsteeen/Dylan together???? For me, the most irritaing aspect is when you get the media going on about Bowie, KISS and Ozzy inventing theatrical rock and then neither of those three (with the expection of maybe Ozzy) denying it.

[A_MichaelUK]

>Cooper is invited on prime time TV shows KISS would never be

That's not totally true. For example, Gene Simmons has appeared on "The Paul O'Grady Show" just as Alice has, but yes, Alice has done that sort of thing more often than Kiss have done.