Shockrock-comparing Alice to Kiss

[RemarkablyInsincere]

Alice did the scary villian thing.... KISS were superheroes.

[WickedYoungMan]

I think KISS turned what Alice was doing into a cartoon.

[glamprincess]

And due to this, people lumped the two rock acts together even though Kiss were never really shocking.

Except perhaps when Gene Simmons dated Diana Ross?

Good one, Maurice!....And don't forget Cher!

[glamprincess]

I think KISS turned what Alice was doing into a cartoon.

True and unfortunately I think it brought Alice down to their level. A lot of critics hate Kiss and feel that Kiss were more about the big spectacle rather than the music. Since Alice Cooper and Kiss get lumped together by people, a lot of people began to mistakenly think Alice Cooper was just another Kiss, even though Alice Cooper was an innovator with better music and more clever lyrics. So being lumped with Kiss has not been the best thing for Alice, in my opinion.

[MacQueen]

David Bowie from the 70's has more shock value and credibility than Kiss ever had.

Mod rocker, Hippie transcendentalist, Gender bending alien, Plastic soul musician, Berlin stormtrooper...

Kiss are just clowns, plain and simple. Alice Cooper remains America's badboy to this very day. He's never truly sold out the way Kiss has and thankfully he never will.

[Give the kid a break]

I think Kiss was considered "Shock Rock" because the parents were the ones that were shocked. I was about 10-11yrs old when I started getting into kiss, and my parents were like 'WHAT"? When all of my friends were in love w/Shaun Cassidy, I was shooting my love gun and hanging posters of Peter Criss in my room.

That being said I agree w/the earlier posts, they aren't truly shocking, they have catchy songs that became mainstream, and obviously had a great marketing team behind them. Good for them, I wish I had Gene Simmons money.

BUT I would say that AC was truly shocking way back when, and only those who had the same demented dark sense of humor could really appreciate the music for what it was. He's remained true to himself, whatever "himself" may be at the given moment, for all of these years.

[Wicked Little Lady]

They only real “shock rock” aspect of KISS is that Gene Simmons’ character was a demon personified and spewed blood and fire. I have seen a video in which Gene was interviewed and attempted to act like a demon during the interview. It didn’t go over real well and ended up being kind of awkward.

Is the video the one on the first KISSology DVD? On that interview Gene makes reference to eating audience members and the older lady beside him makes fun of his nose. He snarled and hissed during the program and it basically was ignored by all those in attendance, including the audience.

Yes--that is the video that I saw. An awkward moment for the "nice jewish boy" indeed.

[Gunner]

I think KISS turned what Alice was doing into a cartoon.

Quite a good way of putting it actually.

He's never truly sold out the way Kiss has and thankfully he never will.

Nah, but got damn close to it during 86 -91 to the point where I could actually cringe.

Alice Cooper was/is an artistic concept, it is more than music; it's drama, it's surrealism, it's social commentary, it's cathartical, it's rebellion, it's a morality play, it’s philosophical in many ways. Kiss is a good time party band, to liken the two is to misunderstand and not appreciate the work of Cooper.

[steven_crayn]

And due to this, people lumped the two rock acts together even though Kiss were never really shocking.

Except perhaps when Gene Simmons dated Diana Ross?

Nothing shocking about Diana Ross, great singer the queen of Motown, a superstar if ever there was one, Gene Simmons has got great taste in women.

One of the great rock n roll moments was

When Alice met Diana

[steven_crayn]

He's never truly sold out the way Kiss has and thankfully he never will.

Nah, but got damn close to it during 86 -91 to the point where I could actually cringe.

Really?

The tours Alice did from 86 -91 were some of the best he ever did.

Hey Stoopid makes my top 10 of Alice albums.

What people need to realise is that the much criticised Trash album though commercial did contain some great songs, I defy anyone to tell me Poison and Bed Of Nails aren't great songs, ok so they are not as great as School's Out or Halo Of Flies, but as I have said before there are degrees of greatness.

The Trash tour was one of the best, Alice's performance of Steven on that tour really was one of the highlights of the 30 gigs I've seen by the Coop, and when he played the Marquee Club in London in 89 with a stripped down show prior to the UK leg of the Trash show, it was a career high and you had to be there to realise you really were in the presence of a Rock God.

So do not dismiss that period as cringeworthy.

[Maurice]

And due to this, people lumped the two rock acts together even though Kiss were never really shocking.

Except perhaps when Gene Simmons dated Diana Ross?

Nothing shocking about Diana Ross, great singer the queen of Motown, a superstar if ever there was one, Gene Simmons has got great taste in women.

err steven........................
.............................. I was trying and obviously failing!, to make a joke of it.

In hindsight, perhaps I should it have put this at the end?


Slightly aside of this, I don't know if you ever read something that Diana Ross had to say about it at the time - Sounds circa 1979 I reckon - but what sticks in my mind is a very long and tiresome diatribe of an interview with Diana where she extols Gene Simmons virtues, and then extols some more, and more, and still more!. It makes amusing reading, particularly as it carried the title "Dia-arrhoea"

But I agree with you, she is a fine artist - and no insult was intended.

Sorry if you took it that way.

[steven_crayn]

Except perhaps when Gene Simmons dated Diana Ross?

Nothing shocking about Diana Ross, great singer the queen of Motown, a superstar if ever there was one, Gene Simmons has got great taste in women.

err steven........................
.............................. I was trying and obviously failing!, to make a joke of it.

In hindsight, perhaps I should it have put this at the end?


Slightly aside of this, I don't know if you ever read something that Diana Ross had to say about it at the time - Sounds circa 1979 I reckon - but what sticks in my mind is a very long and tiresome diatribe of an interview with Diana where she extols Gene Simmons virtues, and then extols some more, and more, and still more!. It makes amusing reading, particularly as it carried the title "Dia-arrhoea"

But I agree with you, she is a fine artist - and no insult was intended.

Sorry if you took it that way.

I knew you were making light of it, my response wasn't having a go at you.

Sounds, now there was music paper and the first Kerrang! magazine (when it was worth reading) was given away as a one off supplement of Sounds.

So much better than the NME (enemy) with their musical snobbery heads up their rear.

[Maurice]

I knew you were making light of it, my response wasn't having a go at you.

Sounds, now there was music paper and the first Kerrang! magazine (when it was worth reading) was given away as a one off supplement of Sounds.

So much better than the NME (enemy) with their musical snobbery heads up their rear.

No worries mate - I knew you weren't having a go at me - I just thought you were taking my comment 'seriously' is all!!

But yes again! Sounds, MM, NME, Disc - even Record Mirror with its shiny/glossy cover all made for some good reading in their day!

[cooperrocks]

I agree that Trash has a few good songs on it and I love the entire Hey Stoopid album. They were definitely "smart" albums to do. No one can deny that Poison was a huge hit for Alice. Interestingly when people discuss playlists, etc. one of the first ones longtime fans want to see dropped is "Poison," yet it always gets one of the biggest responses from casual fans. To me, the best Alice albums are when he is doing something innovative. I think that is one of the reasons why I have gone back years later and now really appreciate some of the material on the early 80's albums Alice did. Those albums may not have fully worked but several of the songs were very clever. That's probably part of the reason I don't think the new album has entirely worked. The concept is clever but the overproduction of the album sort of ruins what could have been a classic in my opinion.

Sorry to get off track, I think the reason people labeled KISS as shock rock was as some of you said the makeup, spitting of blood, etc. However, their sound sort of contradicted their look in terms of shock value.

[recoop]

Its been great reading all these posts re shock rock...since my original post..something I just remembered was that in the rock press mid 1970s a lot was made of Bob Ezrin producing was it Destroyer...Dick Wagner palying some guitar..and also Kiss taking advantage of no new Alice material in 1974 and no tour of ACGTH in 1976...so it was played up that Alice had sort of left the way open to take over some of his fans whilst he was away...sort of left the back door open for burglars...also nme in their inside back page snippits from memort used to focus on how the size of KISS stage set up and then say "eat you heart out Alice Cooper"...so from all of this I think the idea was peddled that KISS had taken over from Alice and therefore now had the mantle of champions of shock rock...thats my take on it...As I said at beginning I tried to get into KISS myself aroun 1977...went into my local record store in 1977/8 ish..they played me Double Platinum I think and said you won't like it as its more like Gary Glitter than Alice Cooper...a bit harsh...Kiss are ok but having seen songs like Do you Love Me by Kiss on YouTube they are a bot too stomping Glam for me..still fun though.

[Si]

Sounds, now there was music paper and the first Kerrang! magazine (when it was worth reading) was given away as a one off supplement of Sounds.

The first Kerrang wasn't given away. It was a one off special magazine put together by the Sounds staff and sold separately. I remember buying it on the way to school the day it came out (and still have it, as well as the first 100-150 issues before it went completely crap).
That first issue was so successful they made the decision to go monthly almost straight away (and then bi-weekly before becoming weekly).

[steven_crayn]

Sounds, now there was music paper and the first Kerrang! magazine (when it was worth reading) was given away as a one off supplement of Sounds.

The first Kerrang wasn't given away. It was a one off special magazine put together by the Sounds staff and sold separately. I remember buying it on the way to school the day it came out (and still have it, as well as the first 100-150 issues before it went completely crap).
That first issue was so successful they made the decision to go monthly almost straight away (and then bi-weekly before becoming weekly).

There was a really good issue when Alice toured here in 82, probably the best ever issue they did.

[glamprincess]

There was a really good issue when Alice toured here in 82, probably the best ever issue they did.

The British music press were extemely kind to Alice when he toured the UK in 1982. (The US music press did not pay him much attention when he toured the US in 1981.) Even The New Musical Express doted on Alice in 1982. The interview that The New Musical Express did with Alice in 1982 is one of the best interviews with Alice that I have ever read. It was a really in-depth interview and very interesting.

[blackwidow2008]

Just my opinion.... Alice challenged the norm of society in the early 70s and shoved it back in our faces, while KISS focused on putting on a good show with bells and whistles.

Don't get me wrong, I love KISS, but I think Alice went for the bigger picture than KISS did.

I'm with you all the way regarding Alice and the bigger picture. However, I can't stand Kiss. Bunch of posers!

[Guilty]

ALICE COOPER - original and the best!