Could Alice ever be blamed for violence or murder?

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Post by BellaDonna » Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:33 am

"Made up definition"? I pity those for whom a 'dictionary definition' can so narrowly describe something so vast and multifaceted as the wonders of 'life' itself - and/or the taking of it.

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Re: Could Alice ever be blamed for violence or murder?

Post by Diane D. » Tue Aug 28, 2012 5:02 pm

Blame Alice for violence, murder or suicide, or any bad feelings?

No. You and only you, are responsible for your actions and feelings.
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Re: Could Alice ever be blamed for violence or murder?

Post by Desperado22 » Tue Aug 28, 2012 6:04 pm

I've always been surprised at how rock music has been blamed for so many murders and suicides. Ozzy, Marilyn Manson, Judas Priest, Slayer, you name it.
It's the same as when people accuse horror movies of influencing people to commit murder.
Like others have said, if someone is willing to kill someone because of a Slipknot song, then they were already messed up way before they listened to Slipknot.
It's not the music or the movie that's evil, it's the individual. Look at how far the media went to blame Manson for Columbine. That was really stupid imo.
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Re: Could Alice ever be blamed for violence or murder?

Post by recoop » Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:59 pm

The question asks "could he be blamed"...of course he could by some..but then in many court cases there is an expert on each side..e.g psychological,medical,legal...perhaps someone whose mental state is vulnerable could be affected by lyrics etc but that would be difficult to prove...somehow it probably comes back to a question of censorship...and we perhaps all censor to some degree what we watch and listen to...having been a fan of AC for over 40 years theres probably a couple of times I have thought he has been close to opening himself to accusations of overstepping the mark re bad taste...most people know Alice is an act-not so obvious perhaps in early 70s.
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Re: Could Alice ever be blamed for violence or murder?

Post by Inmate » Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:08 am

You never know what could happen. :blush:
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Re: Could Alice ever be blamed for violence or murder?

Post by While Heaven Wept » Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:18 am

Young minds are incredibly impressionable........so violent games, music, films will most definitely have some kind of effect.

That said, it's more an issue of bad parenting. My Mother banned me from playing Street Fighter 2 when I was about 10 years old as I became overly aggressive towards my friends. At the time I thought she was crazy but she definitely saw a chance in my personality.

She never stopped me from listening to Alice though as she could see that all of it had a wicked sense of humour.

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Re: Could Alice ever be blamed for violence or murder?

Post by tuneylune » Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:56 am

Good points by everyone here..lest anyone forget, it's only rock and roll...or a movie...or a game...or a comic...etc. If someone's "Cheese has slipped off the cracker" (I remember hearing this from my Southern relatives when I was little), it was all ready to slip from the get go. Some people are just plain bad...sad, but true. :(
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Re: Could Alice ever be blamed for violence or murder?

Post by Robbie » Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:25 am

Not trying to be a "smart Alec" but just for the sake of accuracy ,one of the problems with the references to Hitler's role in the Holocaust on this post is that there is no recorded evidence that he ordered the extermination of the Jews. The logistical decisions and nascent policies that led to the "Final Solution" were taken at the Wannsee Conference in January 1942-Hitler was not even present. However, that does not mean he does not bear responsibility and ultimate culpability for the mass genocide of his regime as it stretches the bounds of credibility that he was not aware of the actions of the senior Nazis Himmler, Heydrich and Eichmann in particular who were largely responsible for the implementation of the genocidal policies that developed after 1942. But to be more on topic- as Steven pointed out Hitler's love of Wagner is well documented but without being in any way facetious the idea that the influence of his music (and prototypical racial views) could lead to a pathological and nihilistic world view is patently ridiculous. Hitler's cheese had certainly slipped off his cracker long before he attended the Berlin Opera House.

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Re: Could Alice ever be blamed for violence or murder?

Post by Diane D. » Wed Sep 05, 2012 4:22 pm

Robbie, the question is ''Could Alice ever be blamed for violence or murder?'' What Hitler has to do with that question?
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Re: Could Alice ever be blamed for violence or murder?

Post by Robbie » Wed Sep 05, 2012 4:55 pm

Diane I was just referencing some comments further up the thread about Hitler committing murder which I felt were inaccurate.

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Re: Could Alice ever be blamed for violence or murder?

Post by Diane D. » Wed Sep 05, 2012 5:01 pm

O.K., cool, Robbie. Wars has never been my thing. Don't know much about it.
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Re: Could Alice ever be blamed for violence or murder?

Post by Robbie » Wed Sep 05, 2012 5:18 pm

No problem Diane- I am passionate about history as well as Alice Cooper!!!

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Re: Could Alice ever be blamed for violence or murder?

Post by steven_crayn » Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:32 am

I think Kane Roberts put it best in his interview in guitarist magazine in 1988

"If someone is gonna see something that I do and turn it into a real act of violence, I don't feel that I'm responsible for the first 17 or 20 or 50 years of that guy's life. I mean you can't help being an inadvertent catalyst for someone's crazy behavior."
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Re: Could Alice ever be blamed for violence or murder?

Post by steven_crayn » Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:57 am

Robbie wrote:Not trying to be a "smart Alec" but just for the sake of accuracy ,one of the problems with the references to Hitler's role in the Holocaust on this post is that there is no recorded evidence that he ordered the extermination of the Jews. The logistical decisions and nascent policies that led to the "Final Solution" were taken at the Wannsee Conference in January 1942-Hitler was not even present. However, that does not mean he does not bear responsibility and ultimate culpability for the mass genocide of his regime as it stretches the bounds of credibility that he was not aware of the actions of the senior Nazis Himmler, Heydrich and Eichmann in particular who were largely responsible for the implementation of the genocidal policies that developed after 1942. But to be more on topic- as Steven pointed out Hitler's love of Wagner is well documented but without being in any way facetious the idea that the influence of his music (and prototypical racial views) could lead to a pathological and nihilistic world view is patently ridiculous. Hitler's cheese had certainly slipped off his cracker long before he attended the Berlin Opera House.

Music is a very powerful tool as any musician will tell you and can provide the setting where it is easier to manipulate people's minds and emotions, Hitler knew that and used Wagner's music for affect, while I agree Hitler & Wagner were very different people, if you know your history, Wagner had a massive influence on his life.

Excellent article on this

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/musi ... agner.html
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Re: Could Alice ever be blamed for violence or murder?

Post by Diane D. » Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:10 pm

Music should be fun, don't you think?
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Re: Could Alice ever be blamed for violence or murder?

Post by GailsFriend » Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:05 am

I just listened to the new Green Day song, KILL THE DJ....as you could imagine....the song is pretty literal.....

But just imagine the reaction if Alice wrote the same type of song......
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Re: Could Alice ever be blamed for violence or murder?

Post by Diane D. » Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:49 am

Maybe it is the same type of songs but he's not using the same type of words...

O.K., so, what Alice's song in all his répertoire, would represent violence the most? To make things a little more complicated,don't take something from ''Brutal Planet'', it's too obvious.
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Re: Could Alice ever be blamed for violence or murder?

Post by old school vet » Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:21 pm

It would have to be Sick Things because only Sick Things consider violence and murder in the first case. Let's not forget that Alice off stage detests the thought of such things, and that in the stage act he gets his lot by way of various executions, and rightly so.

The answer to the original question of " Could Alice ever be blamed for violence or murder?" must be NO.

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Re: Could Alice ever be blamed for violence or murder?

Post by Desperado22 » Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:24 pm

It wouldn't surprise me tbh. Yes, it would be completely stupid and absurd. But the cases made against Judas Priest, Marilyn Manson, Twisted Sister, Slayer etc, have been just as absurd.
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Re: Could Alice ever be blamed for violence or murder?

Post by Inmate » Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:02 am

Diane D. wrote:Music should be fun, don't you think?
:8):
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