Whats better? ACAS or Dirty Diamonds

RemarkablyInsincere · Post by **RemarkablyInsincere** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 10:25 pm

steven wrote:Must listen to the ACAS a bit more before I make up my mind.
Anyone else who like Jesse jane on DD.I think it is an awsome song.Should be played live.Every person I have played the song to has liked it.Awsome lyrics!

I liked it for about 10 minutes than it become overly silly... and plodding too.

I actually like a decent amount of stuff on DD, however we are comparing here and, to me, ACAS is a far superior album.

RemarkablyInsincere · Post by **RemarkablyInsincere** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 10:38 pm

I just went back and counted the one thread I'd been reading... the main one... http://www.metalsludge.tv/phpBB2/viewto ... light=acas

Yay - 22
Nay - 9

Not quite 3-1 but not even close to even. Make sure you're not counting the same people more than once.

That guy FantasyMan is extremely bitter... who's copping to being that guy?

guttertrash · Post by **guttertrash** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 11:06 pm

i guess you can always pull for another Ezrin album, but he doesn't have any writing credit in many years except for the rather lackluster Jane's Addiction 'Strays' album which had some bad writing. with Ezrin, you could get a classic or you could get Alice's version of 'Music from The Elder' also. ACAS definitely isn't his best, but it's far from his worst and even farther from 'Music from The Elder.'

i think the worst thing about ACAS is the production and mixing. the songs themselves are decent, but they would've been much better played 'live in the studio' like the last two albums. they sound stiff and lack the energy of the whole band playing together. the arrangements are however pretty good.

as for the handclapping and tambourine, you can't blame Alice for that. they would have sounded good pushed back in the sound bed, but Danny Saber's lack of mixing skills (he has a very thin record mainly of remixes) shines on this album. i think as most people said, the songs will sound good in a live setting, because the songs themselves are above average. when it comes to an album though, good production is important, but mixing is even more important. all the instruments, vocals, and handclaps sound like they were recorded and then just pasted on top of each other...they sound distant from each other, they don't blend into a cohesive sound bed.

so ACAS has a couple more songs that are better, but DD sounds better just because of the live in the studio production. the overall production on both sounds bad for an album in today's digital world, but in different ways. DD sounds a bit muddy, and it suffers from being digital and trying to make it sound like a 70s album. ACAS's individual instrument and vocal tracks just sound pieced together and not mixed worth a damn.

Feezle-Nuts · Post by **Feezle-Nuts** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 11:59 pm

I personally can't stand The Saga of Jesse Jane.

WickedYoungMan · Post by **WickedYoungMan** » Thu Aug 07, 2008 12:58 am

RemarkablyInsincere wrote:I just went back and counted the one thread I'd been reading... the main one... http://www.metalsludge.tv/phpBB2/viewto ... light=acas

Yay - 22
Nay - 9

Not quite 3-1 but not even close to even. Make sure you're not counting the same people more than once.

You didn't mention one specific thread in the beginning nor was I speaking of one specific thread. Out of the few threads I did find out with comments on it, I came up to something closer to half and half with a slight edge to positive, not "3 to 1." I'll be more than happy to do a recount, but I didn't even find 22 different positive reviews in the one thread you posted. And no, I'm not counting people more than once as obviously that would have attributed to more positive posts as well. Wrote down every screen name and put them in either Pos or Neg catagory and got the tallies I got.

RemarkablyInsincere · Post by **RemarkablyInsincere** » Thu Aug 07, 2008 1:41 am

WickedYoungMan wrote:
RemarkablyInsincere wrote:I just went back and counted the one thread I'd been reading... the main one... http://www.metalsludge.tv/phpBB2/viewto ... light=acas

Yay - 22
Nay - 9

Not quite 3-1 but not even close to even. Make sure you're not counting the same people more than once.
You didn't mention one specific thread in the beginning nor was I speaking of one specific thread. Out of the few threads I did find out with comments on it, I came up to something closer to half and half with a slight edge to positive, not "3 to 1." I'll be more than happy to do a recount, but I didn't even find 22 different positive reviews in the one thread you posted. And no, I'm not counting people more than once as obviously that would have attributed to more positive posts as well. Wrote down every screen name and put them in either Pos or Neg catagory and got the tallies I got.

That's what I counted... if you'd like to do a recount and list every screen name... by all means feel free.

Shoesalesman · Post by **Shoesalesman** » Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:19 am

WickedYoungMan wrote:I'd rather take guitars over handclapping.. but okay.

I'd have to agree with that.

BellaDonna · Post by **BellaDonna** » Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:06 am

This is a tough question: it's really comparing apples to oranges..totally different stuff.

ACAS has some really good stuff: a lot of effort went into blending the most horrific pieces of every type of serial killer around into one "Spider" : mutiliation, schizo, canibal, sexual, collector, etc...(there really is a "Spider" serial killer in Iraq - or Iran? One of those sandy places...with the silk wrappings etc...), it brings back one of our favourite characters (with a host of others...), it's great in a commercial "appeal to the masses" kind of way. Love the tambourine - though at times: it's all I can really hear. The flip side is: that damn clapping, those overly loud background vocals (ok: the guy singing backup, "I've got some chloroform and handcuffs - just for YOU!" got way out of hand on that one..I understand your enthusiasm, but let Alice do his job, please. Remember: backup?) The story? Ehh... I came out of it thinking I was "duped" (wouldn't be the first time: see New Jersey Exit story..heheh!) I like the youtube promos leading up to it. Very nice. I like ACAS in a "Trash" and "Hey Stoopid" sort of way, but it falls under those two.

DD: great in a raw, here it is, we're rockin' for the sake of it, kind of way.

That's my take on it, not that it matters in the general scheme of things. I prefer ACAS over DD due to the thought involved.

Much Well,
BD

I'm Pain · Post by **I'm Pain** » Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:40 am

I'm all about the garage band sound of DD. That album may have one or two clunkers on the 2nd half, but it's loose, fun and Alice sounds like he had a blast making it. Not much there to read into - I'm okay with that. It's super catchy and not overly Heavy Metal as much as it's just rock n Roll.

ACAS is growing on me but the storyline is so cliche' it's almost stunning. The lyrics are also not anything that that I would rate with Alice's best. I'll listen to it because it's Alice, but I doubt I'll be going back to it like I do DD.

It's no wonder "I Know Where You Live" is my favorite off ACAS. It sounds musically like something of DD..

steven15322 · Post by **steven15322** » Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:41 am

There are so many threads, I cannot remember if I commented on this one or not..so I will say ACAS.. Though I like alot of songs on DD. Ask me later like weeks or months and I may have a different answer. I remember liking DD when it came out over Eyes. I now feel Eyes is a superior album over DD and grab it to play about 90% of the time over DD

guilty65 · Post by **guilty65** » Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:14 am

In my opinion...I think ACAS missed by quite a bit. It still has that Alice sneer vocally but the songs (Again IMHO) dont have the erieness that something like Dead Babies had. I know I know...Years away BUT....When You heard the Dead Babies intro the setup was so spooky you knew exactly where it was going.
It sounds (To me) that ACAS has a heavy pop rock feel musically with dark vocals. And Yes We need Bob Rock!
I will get slaughtered for this I am sure.

guttertrash · Post by **guttertrash** » Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:44 am

guilty65 wrote:And Yes We need Bob Rock!
I will get slaughtered for this I am sure.

you're right about that. Bob Rock is the worst idea ever. okay, second worst, Desmond Child would've been the worst idea. but what has ole Bob ever produced that was better then the bands material before Bob? Bob could've done what Desmond did. he could've got Coop high in the charts, but it wouldn't have been because of spectacular music.

i completely agree with your other comments. ACAS is definitely not dark like Dead Babies and his other dark songs. in another thread, i said that it might be because of the darkness of the reality of a serial killer. you also have to remember that most of the darkest Cooper songs came from the original Alice Cooper Group. Buxton, Smith, Dunaway, and Bruce played a key role in the majority of the early albums. Alice has always been the 'pop' influenced singer, whie they brought the complex music and usually the dark music to the table. Welcome To My Nightmare was not an overly dark album either. Most of his solo stuff has been rooted in pop hooks. this album follows suit. it is just a fun album about a psycho. Feed My Frankenstein was about a psycho, and it was cheesy also. i think the album in itself is supposed to be pretty lighthearted and instead of a 'horror movie,' it's a 'horror comedy.'

Master Shake · Post by **Master Shake** » Thu Aug 07, 2008 7:10 am

ACAS by a mile/km whatever system you use. DD wouldnt be so far behind if the overall sound wasnt so bad but years on the only songs i really still listen to is steal that car and Zombie Dance. ACAS is pretty balanced imo, nothing brilliant and nothing crap just a good solid rock album. As for the whole horror thing, well thats the thing with hype and giving people pre-judgment asuming their going to get something phsychological and creepy. I admit it wasnt entirely what i was expecting but as far as rock albums go i think its pretty cool.
Theres some pretty dark lyrics still, its just the music that takes away the feeling of it being disturbing, i would love to hear all the tracks that didnt make the final cut (the ones apparently to make it a double album).

While Heaven Wept · Post by **While Heaven Wept** » Thu Aug 07, 2008 11:21 am

I think i need to chime in as there are alot of people giving misinformation about producers, significantly those who are suggesting that Bob Ezrin no longer produces and/or is not that capable of doing so anymore.

He recently produced the latest Deftones album 'Saturday Night Wrist'. I would strongly recommend anyone to listen to this, the production is nothing short of stunning.

As for those who have given negative comments about Desmond Child, again i think it's worth noting that his work on Trash is not the only thing to go off here. He recently produced the latest album by Meat Load, and although the music itself may not be to everyones tastes, the sound and vibrancy of the album is absolutely fantastic - certainly leagues above ACAS production wise.

I also agree with the comments regarding the hand-claps - they're bloody awful. I'm guessing that they were just taken from a sample library cos they sound hideously processed and fake.

Master Shake · Post by **Master Shake** » Thu Aug 07, 2008 1:35 pm

well regarding Desmond Child im not a fan of Bat III either as far af Meat Loaf is concerned. The title track TML sounds like its missing beats leading into the chorus otherwise imo the only decent song is ITLOTPTBIK which was written by Steinmann anyway. Production wise it is kinda decent but far from brilliant imo. I thought counldnt have said it better or whatever its called was better anyway

While Heaven Wept · Post by **While Heaven Wept** » Thu Aug 07, 2008 1:43 pm

and one more thing which is really niggling me..

..is it just me or is Alice singing awfully sharp on 'I Am The Spider' ?

RemarkablyInsincere · Post by **RemarkablyInsincere** » Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:03 pm

While Heaven Wept wrote:and one more thing which is really niggling me..

..is it just me or is Alice singing awfully sharp on 'I Am The Spider' ?

No idea what you mean... all I know is I love the song.

Stuart · Post by **Stuart** » Thu Aug 07, 2008 5:45 pm

steven wrote:Must listen to the ACAS a bit more before I make up my mind.
Anyone else who like Jesse jane on DD.I think it is an awsome song.Should be played live.Every person I have played the song to has liked it.Awsome lyrics!

Musically I think Jesse Jane is very pleasing to the ear. But after two or three listens I never took to it, if it had been a serious song it would have worked, but the lyrics / humour wore off quite quickly.

HORRORHOLIC · Post by **HORRORHOLIC** » Thu Aug 07, 2008 5:52 pm

ACAS by far is the better album in my opinion

Shoesalesman · Post by **Shoesalesman** » Thu Aug 07, 2008 5:53 pm

Stuart wrote:But after two or three listens I never took to it, if it had been a serious song it would have worked, but the lyrics / humour wore off quite quickly.

I just love this song. It hasn't lost its luster yet, for me anyway.

Whats better? ACAS or Dirty Diamonds

I think ACAS missed...

Re: I think ACAS missed...