Hey Stoopid - why not a hit like Trash

[A_MichaelUK]

>At the time, the impression was that Alice was bottoming out. There really was this notion that Alice was one step away from playing clubs.

That may have been your "impression", but I was around at that time and I never detected that. I have ton of press articles from that time and none of them even come close to saying anyhting like that. There's no doubt that the "Operation Rock N' Roll Tour" was not a huge success (and that was for a variety of reasons, I think), but it's a huge leap from that, to saying "Alice was one step away from playing clubs."

> Another element of bad timing was that the album wasn't closer in conjunction with the release of "Wayne's World". By the time that movie was released, the album was no longer on the charts.

I hope you don't mean that with 'better' planning, the album release would have been at the same time as the film's release. The film and Alice's part in it, wasn't even shot until way after the album came out.

[Si]

I don't think he meant to infer that Andy. "Better timing" in this context simply suggests to me "if they had happened at the same time"
The movie certainly got a lot of publicity for Alice so I can see his point, not that there was any way of knowing that would happen when they did the album.

[A_MichaelUK]

>I don't think he meant to infer that Andy. "Better timing" in this context simply suggests to me "if they had happened at the same time"

Just checking, hence my reply.

>The movie certainly got a lot of publicity for Alice so I can see his point, not that there was any way of knowing that would happen when they did the album.

Exactly.

[WickedYoungMan]

I don't know if it's worth anything, but maybe "Feed My Frankenstein" itself was sort of a hit after all, not necessarily due to "Hey Stoopid," or it's single release (which we know wasn't a hit).. but by way of the Wayne's World Soundtrack that was #1 on Billboard for a few weeks?

If that isn't the best way of putting or saying it, hopefully the gist of what I mean is understood.

[MovieDemon]

That may have been your "impression", but I was around at that time and I never detected that. I have ton of press articles from that time and none of them even come close to saying anyhting like that. There's no doubt that the "Operation Rock N' Roll Tour" was not a huge success (and that was for a variety of reasons, I think), but it's a huge leap from that, to saying "Alice was one step away from playing clubs."

Here in NY, there was very much a blase type thought to Alice with "Hey Stoopid". I remember radio DJ's teasing how Alice was doing mini-concerts and giving away free tapes of "Hey Stoopid". They joked that it was the only way to get rid of the copies. Of course, such coverage aggravated me to no end. I really enjoy "Hey Stoopid," and still listen to it pretty often, but again, here in NY, Alice was not being viewed all that favorably in 1991.

I don't think he meant to infer that Andy. "Better timing" in this context simply suggests to me "if they had happened at the same time"
The movie certainly got a lot of publicity for Alice so I can see his point, not that there was any way of knowing that would happen when they did the album.

Exactly.

[A_MichaelUK]

> I remember radio DJ's teasing how Alice was doing mini-concerts and giving away free tapes of "Hey Stoopid".

That's it? Who cares what they think?

> I really enjoy "Hey Stoopid," and still listen to it pretty often, but again, here in NY, Alice was not being viewed all that favorably in 1991.

Well, given that the appearance in Times Square was extremely well - attended and considered to be a fairly large news story by all kinds of different media outlets who were positive about it, I'd say that was a favourable "impression".

[MovieDemon]

Well, given that the appearance in Times Square was extremely well - attended and considered to be a fairly large news story by all kinds of different media outlets who were positive about it, I'd say that was a favourable "impression".

Have you ever been to Times Square? Live appearances in Times Square by any artist will be "well-attended". I've personally seen that on more than one ocassion.

The fact is that the the initial tour of Operation Rock 'N Roll was a disaster. Alice then turning around playing mini-concerts on rooftops, in the streets and in parking lots was not viewed favorably. It was considered a major step down from doing a worldwide arena tour for the Platinum selling "Trash" just a year and a half earlier.

Remember, while Alice was doing some of these mini-concerts, Metallica and Guns 'N Roses were playing Giants Stadium. Poison, and Bon Jovi were headlining arenas. After that promotional tour in '91, it wouldn't be until 1996 that Alice returned to the states on tour. That is a clear indication of how much the Operation Rock 'N Roll Tour and the promotional tour affected Alice.

Granted, such a promotional tour was not viewed negatively by us Alice fans, but those looking from the outside in, most certainly did. If you have a variety of East Coast newspaper clippings of that era favorably talking about the album, I'd love to read them because I must've missed those articles at the time.

[mattcoddington]

The fact is that the the initial tour of Operation Rock 'N Roll was a disaster. Alice then turning around playing mini-concerts on rooftops, in the streets and in parking lots was not viewed favorably. It was considered a major step down from doing a worldwide arena tour for the Platinum selling "Trash" just a year and a half earlier.

of course.

but you don't know the logistics of putting together an entire tour.

[WickedYoungMan]

Remember, while Alice was doing some of these mini-concerts, Metallica and Guns 'N Roses were playing Giants Stadium. Poison, and Bon Jovi were headlining arenas.

I really think you're exaggerating the circumstances here. He did like 7 or 8 shows like this and was off to Europe? I always considered them to be more of "Publicity Stunts" more than shows (and they weren't even full shows.) I really don't think it was viewed on as bad as you make it to be.

After that promotional tour in '91, it wouldn't be until 1996 that Alice returned to the states on tour. That is a clear indication of how much the Operation Rock 'N Roll Tour and the promotional tour affected Alice.

I may be wrong, but I would think a big part of that was the fact he had a daughter who was born shortly after that. But what do I know.

[A_MichaelUK]

>Have you ever been to Times Square?

Yes.

> Live appearances in Times Square by any artist will be "well-attended". I've personally seen that on more than one ocassion.

So why were you so concerned that Alice was being made fun of, just because he was performing for free at an open - air venue? By that logic, The Beatles were on the way out just because they performed on the roof of their office building.

>The fact is that the the initial tour of Operation Rock 'N Roll was a disaster.

I never denied that. What I'm saying is, is that I doubt "There really was this notion that Alice was one step away from playing clubs" and even if there was, it would have been totally false, if that "impression" is based on the relative failure of that tour. Almost all artists will play diferent venues at different times, depending on the circumstances of that time - it doesn't necessarily mean that their career is going badly.

>Alice then turning around playing mini-concerts on rooftops, in the streets and in parking lots was not viewed favorably.

False. I have several reports from that series of shows and all of them were favourable. The people who attended and the media were all excited that Alice was appearing in those crcumstances. It's called a publicity stunt. There was not one negative perception expressed in any of those reports that I have read or seen. Your allowing someone else to form your opinion for you, which is wrong.

>It was considered a major step down

By who? Those local "radio DJ's"? Who cares what they think? Was it "a major step down" when U2 (at the time, maybe the biggest band in the world) did something similar?

>from doing a worldwide arena tour for the Platinum selling "Trash" just a year and a half earlier.

Well, then maybe he should have toured on his own in America and Canada, instead of joining the "Operation Rock N' Roll Tour", then. Just to show how wrong the "impression" you keep referring to is, when Alice was making these small, public appearances, a major European "arena tour" was alread booked. So again, if those people who's opinions you're so concerned with, were better informed, they would have known that Alice was not "one step away from playing clubs" and also (and I think I'm right about this), the public appearances that upset you so much were timed to coincide with the release of the "Freddie's Dead - The Final Nightmare" which Alice appeared in (I think they were referred to as "The Nightmare On Your Street Tour").

>Remember, while Alice was doing some of these mini-concerts, Metallica and Guns 'N Roses were playing Giants Stadium. Poison, and Bon Jovi were headlining arenas

So what? You could say the same thing in 1975 or whenever, when Alice was playing arenas and Led Zeppelin were playing in stadiums, for example.

> After that promotional tour in '91, it wouldn't be until 1996 that Alice returned to the states on tour. That is a clear indication of how much the Operation Rock 'N Roll Tour and the promotional tour affected Alice.

You don't know that for a fact, though. Besides, Alice had been touring almost continually for five years or so up to that point - he deserved a break from it, if that's what he wanted to do.

>Granted, such a promotional tour was not viewed negatively by us Alice fans, but those looking from the outside in, most certainly did.

Again, that's based on the views of a very small number of people which do not not represent "those looking from the outside in".

> If you have a variety of East Coast newspaper clippings of that era favorably talking about the album, I'd love to read them because I must've missed those articles at the time.

You're getting confused. We're not talking about negative or positive responses to "Hey Stoopid" - we're talking about negative or positive impressions about the
free appearances.

[WickedYoungMan]

Alice then turning around playing mini-concerts on rooftops, in the streets and in parking lots was not viewed favorably. It was considered a major step down from doing a worldwide arena tour for the Platinum selling "Trash" just a year and a half earlier.

Come to think of it, Alice DID do a few club shows, one before and two during the Trash tour. This is rather ironic in light of your comments.

[mattcoddington]

Come to think of it, Alice DID do a few club shows, one before and two during the Trash tour. This is rather ironic in light of your comments.

big difference in that alice CHOSE to play those clubs. moviedemon is implying that alice was close to being forced to play clubs due to sucking so bad.

[hywel]

Come to think of it, Alice DID do a few club shows, one before and two during the Trash tour. This is rather ironic in light of your comments.

big difference in that alice CHOSE to play those clubs. moviedemon is implying that alice was close to being forced to play clubs due to sucking so bad.

well living here in the uk, i can honestly say i knever knew this to be the case. i thought that the operation rock n roll idea was bad as alice had made such a comeback with trash that it may have been better to tour the usa more on his own. i saw the show over here in birmingham and i thought it was amazing. i have seen a belgian show as well and the crowd in gent are going nuts. in relation to the nightmare on your street part of this thread, it seems to me after watching a few of these shows on vid, that not only the crowd enjoyed themselves, but it also seems that alice and the band are enjoying themselves too. what a fantastic way to see and promote alice.

[mattcoddington]

big difference in that alice CHOSE to play those clubs. moviedemon is implying that alice was close to being forced to play clubs due to sucking so bad.

well living here in the uk, i can honestly say i knever knew this to be the case. i thought that the operation rock n roll idea was bad as alice had made such a comeback with trash that it may have been better to tour the usa more on his own. i saw the show over here in birmingham and i thought it was amazing. i have seen a belgian show as well and the crowd in gent are going nuts. in relation to the nightmare on your street part of this thread, it seems to me after watching a few of these shows on vid, that not only the crowd enjoyed themselves, but it also seems that alice and the band are enjoying themselves too. what a fantastic way to see and promote alice.

to be fair, i don't believe alice was to blame for the failure of operation rock n roll. i think it was the combination of those bands together, not being necessarily in the same genre, and also the change in musical 'fad.'

[hywel]

big difference in that alice CHOSE to play those clubs. moviedemon is implying that alice was close to being forced to play clubs due to sucking so bad.

well living here in the uk, i can honestly say i knever knew this to be the case. i thought that the operation rock n roll idea was bad as alice had made such a comeback with trash that it may have been better to tour the usa more on his own. i saw the show over here in birmingham and i thought it was amazing. i have seen a belgian show as well and the crowd in gent are going nuts. in relation to the nightmare on your street part of this thread, it seems to me after watching a few of these shows on vid, that not only the crowd enjoyed themselves, but it also seems that alice and the band are enjoying themselves too. what a fantastic way to see and promote alice.

to be fair, i don't believe alice was to blame for the failure of operation rock n roll. i think it was the combination of those bands together, not being necessarily in the same genre, and also the change in musical 'fad.'

we also have to remember that grunge rock kicked in big time around this era.

[hywel]

i remember there something on the lines of financial problems and shows being cancelled.

here is some stuff from a vinnie moore site.

quote: The US 'Hey Stoopid' tour was called 'Operation Rock'n'Roll' and was a co-headline tour with Judas Priest. Also meant to be on the bill were Motorhead, Metal Church and Dangerous Toys. The Tour had severe financial problems and some dates were canceled.

Brian Nelson (Oct `95): "Some total moron at the stinkin' record company [thought of the idea] . All the acts were on Sony/Epic. My mind still boggles from the utter retardedness of it all. I told everyone from day one that it would bomb. Nobody ever listens to me."

fair point.

[A_MichaelUK]

>we also have to remember that grunge rock kicked in big time around this era.

That's kind of what mattjcodd just said in the post which you were replying to.

[hywel]

>we also have to remember that grunge rock kicked in big time around this era.

That's kind of what mattjcodd just said in the post which you were replying to.

yeah, but i thought i'd throw in the grunge bit.

[mattcoddington]

correct - musical fad.

although, i will not place the ENTIRE blame on the change in music scene, like some people here. there were other logistical problems that you guys don't know about.

[hywel]

correct - musical fad.

although, i will not place the ENTIRE blame on the change in music scene, like some people here. there were other logistical problems that you guys don't know about.

fair enough. like to share?