Time for a change in management ?

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Rob
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Time for a change in management ?

Post by Rob » Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:32 am

Don`t get me wrong, i`m a huge Alice fan,always will be,but i do wonder some times about the way things are done.The last few albums have all been under sold,which you could say are down to many factors ( Promotion from the record labels etc ,also it has to be said the tour setlists which have now become very stale and which rely to much on the same old back catalogue tracks don`t help,if the new material is always going to be overlooked by the old stuff,why bother making new albums.With the release of ACAS and the so far good promotion it has been given on-line,regardless of the release date, the European tour should of started with at least 6 new tracks from it,most fans attending the shows will of already heard the tracks anyway,it now seems that the first time anybody in Europe is likely to hear anything new will be in Germany in November & December ( Support dates with Whitesnake or 2009).It just seems such a waste to me.It`s a tough enough market as it is,this day and age is all about today and not tomorrow.The Brutal Planet tour setlst was the last time a new album had the most new tracks included since the Trash tour.Since then each tour Dragontown,Eyes and Dirty Diamonds have all featured less in the setlists despite the increasing tour schedule. YOU TOUR,YOU PLAY,YOU SELL

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Post by Si » Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:56 am

Most of your post is about setlists which are Alice's choice, not management. He decides the setlists etc. This has also been done to death in other threads recently.

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Re: Time for a change in management ?

Post by Shoesalesman » Sun Jul 13, 2008 6:05 pm

Rob wrote:Since then each tour Dragontown,Eyes and Dirty Diamonds have all featured less in the setlists despite the increasing tour schedule.
I've wondered how long Alice has been thinking of the Along Came A Spider idea before plans were made to conceptualize it. If he had the idea a few years ago, in some early form, maybe the last few years of recording and touring was a chance to go in a different direction musically (which wasn't since he returned to a sound he was part of in the early '70s) while ACAS went from idea to paper. I'm surely not saying the last two albums were back-burners (because they're not) or that ACAS was years in the making, but he chose to do two rockin' albums from the garage focused more on songs than concept.

I saw both Eyes and DD tours, and although they were scaled down and loaded with old hits, the energy was there. To me anyway, there seemed to be a recharge in the last five years on the road for Alice, playing lots of dates like you mentioned.
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Post by Jason » Sun Jul 13, 2008 8:34 pm

Isn't Shep still heading Alice's management? In the overall scheme of things, I'd say he's done well.
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Post by Shoesalesman » Sun Jul 13, 2008 9:05 pm

Yes, Shep's still managing.
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Post by steven_crayn » Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:08 pm

Toby Mamis is Alice's manager but he works for Shep Gordon who runs Alive Enterprises which handles Alice amongst other things such as film production.

Both do a great job, If it ain't broke don't fix it. ;)
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Post by Guilty » Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:31 pm

somall of the latest albums from brutal planet onwards have been the the best of alices works since the coopers were together. but it leaves me wondering would a new manager and a sronger record lable make any diffence?
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Post by Parish » Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:58 pm

You know what they say, "Shape up or Shep out"!

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Post by RemarkablyInsincere » Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:08 pm

The entire record industry is in a free fall... I don't think severing a 40 year old business relationship in the slim hopes that there suddenly would be a huge career resurgence would be wise.

In all honesty, Alice is doing pretty well in the scheme of things when compared to many of his contemporaries.
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Post by glamprincess » Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:21 pm

RemarkablyInsincere wrote:The entire record industry is in a free fall... I don't think severing a 40 year old business relationship in the slim hopes that there suddenly would be a huge career resurgence would be wise.

In all honesty, Alice is doing pretty well in the scheme of things when compared to many of his contemporaries.
Well said, RemarkablyInsincere. You write some really good posts. Alice and Shep seem to have a great friendship. They made eachother successful. Why would they ruin a 40 year-old relationship now?

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Post by Parish » Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:24 pm

Alice really isnt interested in releasing groundbreaking stuff now for several reasons but Shep Gordon isnt one of them. They have already done what they needed to do and are know enjoying the fruits of each others labor...

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Post by A_MichaelUK » Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:30 pm

>Alice really isnt interested

How do you know?

>in releasing groundbreaking stuff now for several reasons

What are they?

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Post by Parish » Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:38 pm

A_MichaelUK wrote:>Alice really isnt interested in releasing groundbreaking stuff now for several reasons

Tell us what they are.
Man, you're either really loyal or really bored :evil:

In answer to your question I feel that Alice would have to be controversial again in order to be groundbreaking and he is beyond that now. He's not going to reinvent himself again at 60 nor should he have to. Plus his new found faith would restrict extreme envelope pushing. Like I said in the other thread about Shep he has already done enough groundbreaking work for two lifetimes.

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Post by A_MichaelUK » Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:05 pm

> you're either really loyal or really bored

I prefer to think of it as a quest for clarification.

>In answer to your question I feel that Alice would have to be controversial again in order to be groundbreaking and he is beyond that now. He's not going to reinvent himself again at 60 nor should he have to.

That's a good explanation (which basically I agree with) and the clarification I was after. It's just that you had made it sound like he was against the idea or something.

> Plus his new found faith would restrict extreme envelope pushing.

I think you were nearer the mark with your statements which I quote above.

>Like I said in the other thread about Shep

You mean this thread, I think.

>he has already done enough groundbreaking work for two lifetimes.

I totally agree, although I think the original post in this thread from Rob wasn't about being "groundbreaking", but about record sales. That's also why I wasn't clear about what you meant.

Talking of "the other thread", did you find that credit for "I Miss You" that we discussed?

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Post by Shoesalesman » Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:56 pm

For a guy who's seen Alice at his absolute best AND absolute worst, you wouldn't want anyone else to be in that management position.
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Post by RemarkablyInsincere » Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:47 am

glamprincess wrote:Well said, RemarkablyInsincere. You write some really good posts.
Thank you... just putting my 2 cents in.
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Post by Parish » Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:38 pm

A_MichaelUK wrote: Talking of "the other thread", did you find that credit for "I Miss You" that we discussed?
I actually forgot all about that as a weekend and a thousand beers have passed through my system since we last spoke about this. I will find it though an initial Internet search has yielded nothing definitive. I'm SURE I read this somewhere but cant remember where. I thought it was credited on the back of the album. I'll have to pull mine out and get back to you. I also can contact someone who without question will know...

stay tuned

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Post by MacQueen » Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:25 pm

To this day I believe that Alice should have stayed with a major label after Epic records. He could have easily gone to Columbia, Elektra, Hollywood, or possibly back to MCA or Warner..if they're even around. There HAD to have been some interest in Alice by some of the big companies.

Or maybe just do his business thru an international label like EMI or Virgin records?

I've never trusted indie labels, they get shut down too quickly because they don't have the support or financing to keep themselves afloat. Take a look at Wind Up and Sanctuary records; Wind Up had some of the greatest post grunge artists on the label and now they're barely hanging on to two really good bands and a boatload of newer bands that won't be around for long.

Spitfire? New West?? Please...

Sanctuary had the likes of Iron Maiden, Queensryche, Kiss, and they could have the potential to become a major label for veteran artists but they went belly up also.

It's the same thing for restruants in the first years alone, some make it and others don't.

To me, Alice should have stayed with a major label. I never bought that majors limit creative freedom. I think if he was handled correctly from 2000 onwards and if Alice released the same exact albums, then it would have been a different and possibly better story.

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Post by WickedYoungMan » Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:39 pm

MacQueen wrote:To this day I believe that Alice should have stayed with a major label after Epic records. He could have easily gone to Columbia, Elektra, Hollywood,
Actually, Alice DID go to Hollywood Records. See here: http://www.sickthingsuk.co.uk/misc/hollywood.php
I've never trusted indie labels, they get shut down too quickly because they don't have the support or financing to keep themselves afloat.
That isn't always true. Plenty of smaller indie labels around. Having said that, what you said could apply to major labels too, and it does.
Spitfire?
Probably sounded like a good idea at first.
New West?? Please...
That's still a mystery.. but having said that, they had done more at this point before a new album release than what I can tell SPV has. Not to say SPV won't do anything, but still.
To me, Alice should have stayed with a major label. I never bought that majors limit creative freedom. I think if he was handled correctly from 2000 onwards and if Alice released the same exact albums, then it would have been a different and possibly better story.
While I agree with the idea of what you say, it may not have been Alice's choice to choose the labels he was on necessarily. He just can't walk in a record company's office door and say "Give me a contract" and bam. For all we know, there were offers from the majors but management didn't like the terms of the contract.

Another thing to consider in today's world, is with Indies at least you can write the music you want for the most part, if not complete. The major labels probably don't believe in such a thing as "artistic freedom." Hince, why the stuff that chart topping stuff that gets pushed is mostly corporate crap (and has been for years) while some of the acclaimed best material comes out on Indie or Independent releases.

And even something else to consider.. the last major label Alice was on (Epic), he started off very well, but the sales went down as each album went by (ironically as arguable the quality of the material went up.) A major record company might look at Alice's sales from 1989 on and may think he may be too much of a financial risk (remember, quantity over quality for corporate suits anymore).. where as those sales figures are probably gold to an Indie label so they will snap him right up.

Personally, I am of the opinion that Alice should release the albums himself, but that's another discussion.
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Post by glamprincess » Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:01 pm

MacQueen wrote:To this day I believe that Alice should have stayed with a major label after Epic records. He could have easily gone to Columbia, Elektra, Hollywood, or possibly back to MCA or Warner..if they're even around. There HAD to have been some interest in Alice by some of the big companies.
I don't think people should just presume that "he could easily have gone" to a big label or that "there HAD to have been some interest in Alice by some of the big companies". No offense, but how do you know? I just don't think people should assume that things are so simple and straightforward.
And as WYM pointed out, Alice did go to Hollywood Records but the person who Alice had a relationship with, Bob Pfeiffer, left Hollywood Records so then Alice didn't end up releasing material on that label.

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