The Marketing of Alice Cooper

[cooperrocks]

Hey everyone. Since Alice is currently off tour for a few months and not much going on, I like throwing out a few questions just to get everyone's thoughts and debate (hopefully friendly debate) a little. With KISS retiring yet doing the Digital Avatars thing (in other words they aren't really going away), it made me think about what a marketing machine and really brand KISS is. While I will admit, I was never, even back in the day, a huge KISS fan, those guys know how to make money no question and they have done an effective job of keeping their fanbase.

Years ago KISS had a deal with Wal-mart where their albums were sold, AC/DC did as well. When you go into various stores you will still frequently see KISS t-shirts, AC/DC, and other band shirts and merchandise but not a ton of Alice. I have often thought it would be nice if Alice had some of the same marketing and it could help give him more name recognition with younger audiences. Alice is a true legend, still putting out great music and doing great shows.

Do you believe since say 1986 when he made his comeback, that Alice has been marketed well? If you believe he has, please state your reasons why you feel like you do. If not, what could have been done better?

[Lucius Morthem]

Marketed well? Not at all. Sadly there's a lot of people that when they hear Alice Cooper, they don't really know who that is.

I'd love that to change. Last time I remember seeing a lot of advertising for Alice (other than Road) was with Along Came A Spider, even though it was not toured, there was a video (real videoclip), there was a game, there was merchandising.

and that was a long time ago

[wind_up_toy]

Marketed well? Not at all. Sadly there's a lot of people that when they hear Alice Cooper, they don't really know who that is.

I'd love that to change. Last time I remember seeing a lot of advertising for Alice (other than Road) was with Along Came A Spider, even though it was not toured, there was a video (real videoclip), there was a game, there was merchandising.

and that was a long time ago

There was quite a bit of marketing for Detroit Stories (buildings being lit up with promotional images etc.).

[tommycooper]

I don't believe he's been marketed well. The trick is to try to be objective about it, which is difficult for me as a huge fan since 1972. Maybe he really isn't in the same class as David Bowie...but I'll never believe it!
I'm surprised how few performance videos, other than live clips, have ever been made given his very visual/ theatrical style. Nothing from School's Out or earlier, Elected from BDB, Teenage Lament (missing in action for most of his career) from MoL, Department of Youth (and the rarely seen Nightmare TV show) from WTMN, nothing from ACGTH etc...I couldn't believe it when nothing original appeared for W2MN.
Whenever I look at (particularly) 70s/ 80s music video channels I find that many artists have been better served with studio based videos of their songs which have enjoyed regular rotation and keep their music alive. Blondie is a good example,given Shep's involvement with them in the past. I know that some on this site will argue that these are expensive, and I accept that in the early 80s that might have been an issue, but even today it seems the best we can hope for is a lyric video or a bit of tour footage. When Nita, Chuck and Tommy can all manage it in their solo careers, why not Alice?
If it's Alice's choice that's ok by me. But I doubt it is. Alice has always worked incredibly hard to keep his name out there, from more album releases than virtually all his contemporaries to the thousands of concerts and interviews he's done. He seems to do all the heavy lifting, while artists like Ozzy, Aerosmith, AC/DC seem to have teams working harder than the artists themselves on promotion. So is it Shep's "fault"? Did he decide even back in the 70s that keeping Alice touring, doing ephemeral interviews and TV spots made more sense than, for example, spending time and money on quality videos which last forever. I put fault in inverted commas because I don't for a second think Alice would blame Shep for anything in his career. He might be long dead if Shep hadn't played his part through those troubled late 70s and early 80s.
But I think it's ok for a fan to point out that opportunities, even at this late stage in his career, are still being missed. Why wasn't Alice on Dolly Parton's new heavily publicised rock album? Jeez, Alice has been very complimentary towards her, and recently a reviewer even called Alice the "Dolly Parton of rock".
Finally, for an artist that I erroneously think of as a household name, there's still a lot that doesn't seem to be known. Record sales of "over 50 million" have been bandied about for years, but the OG albums don't appear to have been re-certified for years. I bet Kiss management could tell you to the single unit how many albums have been sold!

[tuneylune]

I don't believe he's been marketed well. The trick is to try to be objective about it, which is difficult for me as a huge fan since 1972. Maybe he really isn't in the same class as David Bowie...but I'll never believe it!
I'm surprised how few performance videos, other than live clips, have ever been made given his very visual/ theatrical style. Nothing from School's Out or earlier, Elected from BDB, Teenage Lament (missing in action for most of his career) from MoL, Department of Youth (and the rarely seen Nightmare TV show) from WTMN, nothing from ACGTH etc...I couldn't believe it when nothing original appeared for W2MN.
Whenever I look at (particularly) 70s/ 80s music video channels I find that many artists have been better served with studio based videos of their songs which have enjoyed regular rotation and keep their music alive. Blondie is a good example,given Shep's involvement with them in the past. I know that some on this site will argue that these are expensive, and I accept that in the early 80s that might have been an issue, but even today it seems the best we can hope for is a lyric video or a bit of tour footage. When Nita, Chuck and Tommy can all manage it in their solo careers, why not Alice?
If it's Alice's choice that's ok by me. But I doubt it is. Alice has always worked incredibly hard to keep his name out there, from more album releases than virtually all his contemporaries to the thousands of concerts and interviews he's done. He seems to do all the heavy lifting, while artists like Ozzy, Aerosmith, AC/DC seem to have teams working harder than the artists themselves on promotion. So is it Shep's "fault"? Did he decide even back in the 70s that keeping Alice touring, doing ephemeral interviews and TV spots made more sense than, for example, spending time and money on quality videos which last forever. I put fault in inverted commas because I don't for a second think Alice would blame Shep for anything in his career. He might be long dead if Shep hadn't played his part through those troubled late 70s and
early 80s.


But I think it's ok for a fan to point out that opportunities, even at this late stage in his career, are still being missed. Why wasn't Alice on Dolly Parton's new heavily publicised rock album? Jeez, Alice has been very complimentary towards her, and recently a reviewer even called Alice the "Dolly Parton of rock".
Finally, for an artist that I erroneously think of as a household name, there's still a lot that doesn't seem to be known. Record sales of "over 50 million" have been bandied about for years, but the OG albums don't appear to have been re-certified for years. I bet Kiss management could tell you to the single unit how many albums have been sold!

Very well said. Maybe the reason We all have fondness for him is He isn't pushed so much that We get sick of him. I loved KISS back in the 70's, but am glad they have called it a day. Enough is enough.

[mr.barlow]

I think they've been doing it on the cheap for years which is a shame. The designs on the shirts for the most part really suck. The bootleggers doing better stuff ..there wa one guy selling Special Forces blankets on Amazon a while back. Very cool stuff.

Alice needs to bring in a new generation of young internet/social media marketing people.

You can find stuff marketed by numerous bands and fans on Facebook which blows away anything Alice releases in terms of merchandise.

I understand a lot of it is not licensed thru thr bands but if that's the case one up the bootleggers with great stuff at a price people can afford.

I truly belive Alice really doesn't care. I think once he's go go the great fairway in the sky his estate will be doing all kinds of stuff with his likeness and image to keep the cash machine churning. But he's likely to tour until he's 95 years old and all his fans will be dead before him!

[Dannorama]

I am of two minds.
1. I am glad that we are not oversaturated, ala AC/DC Back in Black.
2. I am sad that we don't see ANYTHING to pick from besides the crap that we've seen for years.

I have said before that I find the selection from the "Official Store" to be substandard. Here's hoping that someone pulls someone else's head out of their ass, and we get some stuff worth buying.

[boy/man]

I'm surprised how few performance videos, other than live clips, have ever been made given his very visual/ theatrical style. Nothing from School's Out or earlier..

ABC In Concert 1972, the Killer live DVD on Super Duper Alice Cooper says hello.
But yes, it's a travesty. You'd think with such a theatrical performer that we'd be oversaturated with videos dvd's etc.. with the different theatrical shows, but nah!

[cooperrocks]

I don't believe he's been marketed well. The trick is to try to be objective about it, which is difficult for me as a huge fan since 1972. Maybe he really isn't in the same class as David Bowie...but I'll never believe it!
I'm surprised how few performance videos, other than live clips, have ever been made given his very visual/ theatrical style. Nothing from School's Out or earlier, Elected from BDB, Teenage Lament (missing in action for most of his career) from MoL, Department of Youth (and the rarely seen Nightmare TV show) from WTMN, nothing from ACGTH etc...I couldn't believe it when nothing original appeared for W2MN.
Whenever I look at (particularly) 70s/ 80s music video channels I find that many artists have been better served with studio based videos of their songs which have enjoyed regular rotation and keep their music alive. Blondie is a good example,given Shep's involvement with them in the past. I know that some on this site will argue that these are expensive, and I accept that in the early 80s that might have been an issue, but even today it seems the best we can hope for is a lyric video or a bit of tour footage. When Nita, Chuck and Tommy can all manage it in their solo careers, why not Alice?
If it's Alice's choice that's ok by me. But I doubt it is. Alice has always worked incredibly hard to keep his name out there, from more album releases than virtually all his contemporaries to the thousands of concerts and interviews he's done. He seems to do all the heavy lifting, while artists like Ozzy, Aerosmith, AC/DC seem to have teams working harder than the artists themselves on promotion. So is it Shep's "fault"? Did he decide even back in the 70s that keeping Alice touring, doing ephemeral interviews and TV spots made more sense than, for example, spending time and money on quality videos which last forever. I put fault in inverted commas because I don't for a second think Alice would blame Shep for anything in his career. He might be long dead if Shep hadn't played his part through those troubled late 70s and early 80s.
But I think it's ok for a fan to point out that opportunities, even at this late stage in his career, are still being missed. Why wasn't Alice on Dolly Parton's new heavily publicised rock album? Jeez, Alice has been very complimentary towards her, and recently a reviewer even called Alice the "Dolly Parton of rock".
Finally, for an artist that I erroneously think of as a household name, there's still a lot that doesn't seem to be known. Record sales of "over 50 million" have been bandied about for years, but the OG albums don't appear to have been re-certified for years. I bet Kiss management could tell you to the single unit how many albums have been sold!

Excellent post! That's one thing I have thought about often as well. I realize there was no MTV in the 70s during Alice's biggest heyday but with the exception of the Trash/Hey Stoopid era, it is surprising how little use of video a theatrical performer like Alice has had. Take the Raise Your Fist and Yell album (During MTV's peak). There was only one single released which was Freedom. And the Freedom video was basically just concert rehearsal footage. At a time when bands were putting out elaborate music videos, the Freedom video was very generic.

I would never want Alice to be over exposed like KISS has always done. Gene Simmons would sell his late grandma's panties if it could make him a buck. I wouldn't want that but I think a lot more could have and still could be done. I guess it bothers me in some ways because Alice is a legend yet he can't get the publicity of so many, frankly lesser bands. He tours every year, still consistently puts out albums some of which are very good. Yet when you hear the average hard rock fan list their Mount Rushmore of the greatest hard rock bands ever or their Top 10 many don't even consider Alice, who should still be a household name. I know many young people who even if they don't know a lot of their music know who KISS are, who Van Halen is, definitely Ozzy who has maintained an appeal to a younger audience, AC/DC, etc but Alice often gets left out. This despite the fact he is a far more consistent artist. And I honestly think a whole lot of it comes down to lack of marketing for many years. I can walk into Wal-mart today and find an AC/DC or KISS t-shirt and the same goes if you go into their Vinyl section. Yet at least in my area, you will be hard pressed to find anything with Alice on it.

[del]

Not disagreeing with anything said her but just want to add a couple of thoughts/questions.

Did the bad boys image of the band actually hinder longer term visibility and success?
Did trying to go MOR with the ballads cause confusion as to what type of act Alice actually was?
Did the drink and drugs slumps compound uncertainty about him being marketable?
Did the Heavy Metal slump and relative lack of success of Hey Stoopid result in another loss of confidence?
Had Alice long lost his chance to be as well known as Kiss etc by 2000?

Being harsh about things the career has possibly been too inconsistent when significant marketing spend would have helped most. He never achieved the sustained heights of Kiss or AC/DC or several other of the biggest names. Sure, the group hit the premier division for a couple of years but if you looked over the fifty years or so since 71 Alice, either group or solo would only be a blip at the top of the popularity charts three times 71-73, 75, and 89. Unfortunately this doesn’t come close to those who were more consistent in image and output.

Is there a case that some of this has been self inflicted?

[mr.barlow]

I don't believe he's been marketed well. The trick is to try to be objective about it, which is difficult for me as a huge fan since 1972. Maybe he really isn't in the same class as David Bowie...but I'll never believe it!
I'm surprised how few performance videos, other than live clips, have ever been made given his very visual/ theatrical style. Nothing from School's Out or earlier, Elected from BDB, Teenage Lament (missing in action for most of his career) from MoL, Department of Youth (and the rarely seen Nightmare TV show) from WTMN, nothing from ACGTH etc...I couldn't believe it when nothing original appeared for W2MN.
Whenever I look at (particularly) 70s/ 80s music video channels I find that many artists have been better served with studio based videos of their songs which have enjoyed regular rotation and keep their music alive. Blondie is a good example,given Shep's involvement with them in the past. I know that some on this site will argue that these are expensive, and I accept that in the early 80s that might have been an issue, but even today it seems the best we can hope for is a lyric video or a bit of tour footage. When Nita, Chuck and Tommy can all manage it in their solo careers, why not Alice?
If it's Alice's choice that's ok by me. But I doubt it is. Alice has always worked incredibly hard to keep his name out there, from more album releases than virtually all his contemporaries to the thousands of concerts and interviews he's done. He seems to do all the heavy lifting, while artists like Ozzy, Aerosmith, AC/DC seem to have teams working harder than the artists themselves on promotion. So is it Shep's "fault"? Did he decide even back in the 70s that keeping Alice touring, doing ephemeral interviews and TV spots made more sense than, for example, spending time and money on quality videos which last forever. I put fault in inverted commas because I don't for a second think Alice would blame Shep for anything in his career. He might be long dead if Shep hadn't played his part through those troubled late 70s and early 80s.
But I think it's ok for a fan to point out that opportunities, even at this late stage in his career, are still being missed. Why wasn't Alice on Dolly Parton's new heavily publicised rock album? Jeez, Alice has been very complimentary towards her, and recently a reviewer even called Alice the "Dolly Parton of rock".
Finally, for an artist that I erroneously think of as a household name, there's still a lot that doesn't seem to be known. Record sales of "over 50 million" have been bandied about for years, but the OG albums don't appear to have been re-certified for years. I bet Kiss management could tell you to the single unit how many albums have been sold!

Excellent post! That's one thing I have thought about often as well. I realize there was no MTV in the 70s during Alice's biggest heyday but with the exception of the Trash/Hey Stoopid era, it is surprising how little use of video a theatrical performer like Alice has had. Take the Raise Your Fist and Yell album (During MTV's peak). There was only one single released which was Freedom. And the Freedom video was basically just concert rehearsal footage. At a time when bands were putting out elaborate music videos, the Freedom video was very generic.

I would never want Alice to be over exposed like KISS has always done. Gene Simmons would sell his late grandma's panties if it could make him a buck. I wouldn't want that but I think a lot more could have and still could be done. I guess it bothers me in some ways because Alice is a legend yet he can't get the publicity of so many, frankly lesser bands. He tours every year, still consistently puts out albums some of which are very good. Yet when you hear the average hard rock fan list their Mount Rushmore of the greatest hard rock bands ever or their Top 10 many don't even consider Alice, who should still be a household name. I know many young people who even if they don't know a lot of their music know who KISS are, who Van Halen is, definitely Ozzy who has maintained an appeal to a younger audience, AC/DC, etc but Alice often gets left out. This despite the fact he is a far more consistent artist. And I honestly think a whole lot of it comes down to lack of marketing for many years. I can walk into Wal-mart today and find an AC/DC or KISS t-shirt and the same goes if you go into their Vinyl section. Yet at least in my area, you will be hard pressed to find anything with Alice on it.

The contract with MCA was as bare bones as could be as Alice was a huge risk at the time. If I recall someone at MCA owed Shep a favor and they agreed to sign Alice. Also, i think Shep had to personally guarantee any losses incurred should Constrictor have flopped. If it did RFAY would have never been made.

Thus the drum machine on Constrictor, the awful cheap artwork on both albums. ALL of the money went into the 1986 tour with most of it being shep's. It was a huge gamble and it paid off thus they kept the same formula for the 1987 tour.

The MTV Halloween night broadcast was the event was a HUGE moment in the career of Alice. I'd ho so far as to say it WAS the moment his career was resurrected.

All of the investment went into the tours and anyone who saw those shows live can attest to how just incredible they were.

I was in the photo pit for a 1987 show and had Alice make eye contact with me several times during the show. The man looked possessed. I have never before or since see someone so consumed by a character. It was actually a bit unsettling. It's a shame that there is no professional video if that tour as it was Alice at his nastiest!

I don't think MCA ponied up one penny for either tour. It was Shep and Alice and possibly a few investors. MCA I believe didn't get any monies from either tour as they had no stake in it.

[cooperrocks]

Not disagreeing with anything said her but just want to add a couple of thoughts/questions.

Did the bad boys image of the band actually hinder longer term visibility and success?
Did trying to go MOR with the ballads cause confusion as to what type of act Alice actually was?
Did the drink and drugs slumps compound uncertainty about him being marketable?
Did the Heavy Metal slump and relative lack of success of Hey Stoopid result in another loss of confidence?
Had Alice long lost his chance to be as well known as Kiss etc by 2000?

Being harsh about things the career has possibly been too inconsistent when significant marketing spend would have helped most. He never achieved the sustained heights of Kiss or AC/DC or several other of the biggest names. Sure, the group hit the premier division for a couple of years but if you looked over the fifty years or so since 71 Alice, either group or solo would only be a blip at the top of the popularity charts three times 71-73, 75, and 89. Unfortunately this doesn’t come close to those who were more consistent in image and output.

Is there a case that some of this has been self inflicted?

That actually is an interesting and thought provoking take. Let me give my own personal thoughts.
1) I do think with the bad boys image and a lot of it was a matter of timing. After the 60s and all the peace and love movements, the original band seemed legitimately dangerous for a short time though and people overlook this, the original band grew increasingly more commercial. Billion Dollar Babies, as great of an album as it is, was Alice moving into a more commercial sound and Muscle of Love was definitely not a raw Alice album and I do think that the band as a whole had kind of grown weary of some of the shock rock stuff so the answer is quite possibly. Then when Alice went solo, it definitely became more Hollywood and commercial. I actually slightly prefer solo Alice to the original band material myself BUT by that point it became clear it was all a stage act. Back then image did matter to some fans.

2) Rock music was changing in terms of getting radio airplay when it matters so I get having a ballad that will get played on the radio. The problem was you had 4 straight Alice ballad hits in a row but no hard rocker hits so I can see where a casual Alice fan or just a hard rock fan in general would think something has changed.

3) I don't think there is any question that the drinking and drugs hurt. Lace and Whiskey was Alice Cooper basically getting away from being Alice for a while. It wasn't going to work so the decision making behind that, I think is fair to question. Then you get to the early 80's albums which I happen to love. Great lyrics and Alice sort of became "dangerous' again but he didn't tour the last two albums and Warner Brothers wasn't going to market any of the albums. It didn't help.

4) The hair band scene was beginning to decline when Hey Stoopid came out, plus as much as I like the song, I am not sure the title track was a great choice for a first single. The album did okay but nothing like the much better promoted Trash album, even though I think Hey Stoopid is a stronger album. Plus the Operation Rock n Roll Tour Alice was on with many other bands didn't do well largely because of promoters and that didn't help. Then grunge came in. I think a popularity decline was bound to happen because of music changing again but a few different decisions may have gotten Alice another year or so at the top.

5) Hard to say on the last one but KISS found a way to keep most of their old fan base despite the fact that they switched band members a lot and they were able to add some new younger fans somehow. And to your point, a band like AC/DC or Ozzy never really totally lost their audience. I mean there were a few small dips here and there but I will tell you a lot of young people love AC/DC and even their newer stuff sells fairly well when you look at today's market.AC/DC, as we all know, has a sameness to almost every album. For some reason, that doesn't matter to fans. My opinion, but Ozzy hasn't made a great album since probably No More Tears in 1992 but his audience never left and even lesser Ozzy albums, still seem to find a way to do so because his audience will accept anything.

[Dannorama]

Since we’re doing the marketing team’s job for them, let’s be specific:
-Coffee Mugs (15oz+)
-Simple Designs, FFS.
-Pill dispensers (JK)
-No Teddy Bears (NK)

[rodentdog]

Just my 2 cents and guess but I'm thinking Alice is happy with his life and doesn't need to try and take over the world at this point.

[Maaki]

Just my 2 cents and guess but I'm thinking Alice is happy with his life and doesn't need to try and take over the world at this point.

I kinda think this is the gist of it. And why would he not be happy? He has touched millions and millions of people with his art.

[tommycooper]

Although Alice has repeatedly said his career has been blessed, I think he has long harboured a wish for a Vegas type residency where a bit more money could have been lavished on staging. Frustrating (for me at least) that a number of others have had that opportunity

[Marcelocooper]

I like his stuff on the website, I love my Old Black Eyes logo hoodie, my teddy bear and my black widow.
I don’t think Alice isn’t as huge as the oder bands for that reason alone, I think pushing more merchandise would be great. When I went to the USA on 2001, I remember going to the Virgin store and seeing Alice’s McFarlaine toys, well displayed from top to bottom on the wall. Great publicity. But IMO what makes other bands bigger is music. And when I say that, I mean Alice is better. But better doesn’t aways sell. There’s more people listening to Taylor Swift and other Pop crap than good old rock and roll. There’s way more people listening to Brazilian Funk music (absolute crap) than Bach. Mainstream music isn’t aways good. What kept Kiss, Scorpions, Aerosmith, Van Halen and many others on the top for a long time was making mainstream ballads. Hide the metal, make a great I love you song, and get airplay outside of Rock and Roll circle. Ozzy did another route, get a reality show and get TV airplay.

Where I live Alice is well known for people over 50 because he was part of two famous soap operas in the major TV network here. Everyone knows I Never Cry and How you Gonna See me Now. Everyone has listened to Alice.
The other great reason, musically speaking, is that Alice aways experimented. Constrictor, RYFAY, Trash, Hey Stoopid, TLT, BP were a sequence of albuns that had nothing or little to do with the preavious one. They sounded compleatly different. Think about AC/DC, they make the same album for 50 years. I actually think that constant tour and stability also hurts Alice on this aspect.
All the other bands make 15 shows a years. No one knows how Ozzy is still alive. Kiss made 10 farewell tours. Scorpions made a farewall tour. Motley made a farewell tour. That creates a sensation that it is the last opportunity to see these guys, whereas Alice is playing more dates, more consistently and aways says he’ll keep on touring. So why rush? Why travel across the states to see him play if he’s comming to my town?
The same applies to new albuns. Promoting is good, but AC/DC puts a new album per decade. You create a hype for that. People keep wishing for more. Alice gives us more.

I agree that video/DVD and other visual media were greatly unexplored.

[mr.barlow]

Attention Shep!
Get Taylor Swift to wear an Alice Cooper t-shirt and you'll sell a few million shirts.

Get Taylor Swift to record a duet with Alice and it will be a number one hit.

Get Taylor Swift to wear the classic eye makeup in a photo shoot.

Get Taylor Swift to go golfing with Alice.

Get Taylor Swift to join the Hollywood Vampires.

Get Taylor swift to do anything as it seems she is the only artist making any kind of money and impact these days.

Btw: Taylor Swift is a marketing genius and an incredibly smart businesswoman. Reach out to her Shep and cook up a deal.

[Lucius Morthem]

I think Alice just needs some fresh air around him.

Why is the band live so good? Young, still hungry musicians who love what they do.

Last Alice's album don't have that vibe.
Some said that Ozzy had not put out a good album since No More Tears but last two albums produced by Andrew Watt where fresh and more true to what Ozzy was thinking than most of his career and that was great. I believe Alice's character, although it works live, on the albums is stuck on an image that honestly is dead. Old rock n roll is great but it's not for all.

That's why Rock n Roll cover ended sounding flat, why Magic Bus and Road Rats Forever are not really up with the rest of the albums. They do not sound fresh.

The same happens with Deep Purple to give an example (I love them but they do not sound up to what they can deliver* which we could blame age and many factors, but we do know for a fact that Alice can deliver so much more (watching him live is the best example)

[mr.barlow]

I think Alice just needs some fresh air around him.

Why is the band live so good? Young, still hungry musicians who love what they do.

Last Alice's album don't have that vibe.
Some said that Ozzy had not put out a good album since No More Tears but last two albums produced by Andrew Watt where fresh and more true to what Ozzy was thinking than most of his career and that was great. I believe Alice's character, although it works live, on the albums is stuck on an image that honestly is dead. Old rock n roll is great but it's not for all.

That's why Rock n Roll cover ended sounding flat, why Magic Bus and Road Rats Forever are not really up with the rest of the albums. They do not sound fresh.

The same happens with Deep Purple to give an example (I love them but they do not sound up to what they can deliver* which we could blame age and many factors, but we do know for a fact that Alice can deliver so much more (watching him live is the best example)

I think Alice wanted to break free from the horror shtick after Goes To Hell and his fans would never allow it.

Taylor Swift recently had a very good point about fans "freezing you in a point in time" and never want the arist to deviate from what THEY expect you to do.

I believe Alice finally came to accept his lot in the business and adopted the "give them what they want" philosophy. The closest he strayed since 1986 was taking off the make-up for the Trash album and videos then putting it back on in the geniously executed Trash live shows.

The early 80s albums along with Dada to me are Alice at his creative best and a glimpse of what may have been should his fans have been more open minded.