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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:13 am 
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Billion Dollar Baby
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Do you think the label would let an album flop that they had taken the time to get so much star power behind? Trash was given four singles. Two of these were released in the two months leading up to the albums release, and House of Fire was released the month of. Compare that to Aerosmith, Skid Row, Tesla, and Motley Crue who released a single the month before release and then the month of or a bit later, and you can tell that the label was working hard to get this album to sell. Warrant's album was released in January, and they did not release a single for it until a couple months after release. It finally went gold after a single was released, and when Heaven was released at the end of July, it went platinum the next month, and then double platinum by January of 1990 after two more singles had been released. So besides Motley Crue and Aerosmith, you had three virtually unknown bands during that era that sold more than Alice with less of a front end push.

Trash went platinum in January, and Only My Heart Talkin' was released in March, but it did nothing to spike sells anymore, because as of a few years ago, Trash has sold around 1.2 million copies. So, you can say I'm stupid or stoopid, but there is a lot of evidence that shows that Trash was set-up not to fail but is a mediocre "success" considering the backing it was given.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:43 am 
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Billion Dollar Baby
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Apologies if this has been posted already, but here's a positive review!

http://www.moshville.co.uk/reviews/albu ... aranormal/


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:11 am 
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Thanks for this. Nice to see the ACG tracks getting some praise. Also interesting to see a mention of The Devil Goes Down To Georgia which someone else pointed out here.










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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:47 am 
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andyrew wrote:
Apologies if this has been posted already, but here's a positive review!

http://www.moshville.co.uk/reviews/albu ... aranormal/

Thanks andyrew. This comfirms up how the album was shaping up for me, an eclectic mix of very different genres, Alice pulling from all his experiences and styles. No doubt some will hit straight away, some will be growers and some may never quite hit the mark! Can't wait.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:58 am 
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From guttertrash:
"because as of a few years ago, Trash has sold around 1.2 million copies"

I am almost certain that by the summer of 1990, it was almost double that according to what I saw in "Billboard" in an advertisment for the album.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:03 pm 
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Billion Dollar Baby
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It is certainly not certified double platinum. I just looked on RIAA yesterday. I do not have any way to view soundscan for numbers, but if there had been 2.4 million sold, RIAA would have it as triple platinum, because it would be most likely 3 million shipped. Appetite For Destruction is 18x Platinum with sells of around 15 million, so for Trash to still be single platinum has to be pretty close to that total, because soundscan was not around in 1990, so 2 million shipments would have deemed it double, and it isn't to this day certified more than single platinum.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:22 pm 
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Omg, can you all just STFU about Trash already? It was a good album for it's time. But it's definitely no And Justice For All. :rock:

And if 41 was middle aged back then then damn, I'm feeling like a teenager. Middle aged my left foot. Get out of here with that nonsnse. :evil:


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:44 pm 
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Just call me "Chuck"!
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guttertrash wrote:
It is certainly not certified double platinum. I just looked on RIAA yesterday. I do not have any way to view soundscan for numbers, but if there had been 2.4 million sold, RIAA would have it as triple platinum, because it would be most likely 3 million shipped. Appetite For Destruction is 18x Platinum with sells of around 15 million, so for Trash to still be single platinum has to be pretty close to that total, because soundscan was not around in 1990, so 2 million shipments would have deemed it double, and it isn't to this day certified more than single platinum.



I have no idea what the sales figures are, but I assume you do realise that albums and singles are only officially certified by the RIAA if the record company PAYS for them to be certified? It isn`t an automatic process. The record company submits figures and pays a fee, and then the RIAA certify it. No money, no certification.
It's very doubtful Sony have any interest in paying to do that, and haven't had since at least 1992 when Alice was last signed to them. You can`t use official certifications as the only metric to how many albums have sold. Sure, it can help but lack of certification doesn`t mean lack of sales.
I seem to remember back in the mid-90s, after endless pestering by Renfield, that a lot of the original ACG albums were certified all at the same time. That didn`t mean they had only just passed certain sales marks. They were just all done at the same time (and sales by that time were estimated to be much higher then the certifictions anyway).

Also most sales figures that DO show up are often only for the USA. While that is the biggest market, it is far from the only one obviously. SO again US figures only tell part of the story. For example, Alice now sells I believe more records in Germany then the US, but you will never see those sales included in the figures that show up online (like soundscan).

At the end of the day no one really knows exactly how many copies of ANY album has sold, except maybe Shep and his account.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:15 pm 
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Billion Dollar Baby
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Yes, I do understand this, but if the soundscan figures as of three years ago which is the last I have seen are around 1.2 or 1.3 million sold. I would safely assume that this supports the RIAA certification. I would also assume that it has sold double that worldwide, but I would still consider that a mediocre success considering what was put into it. My whole point was that the label and industry make songs hits. It's generally not the fans, because by the mid 80s, MTV and radio stations were setup into rotations, and it took support from your label to get your single added, and Sony did that for Alice, because in my opinion, this album with it's star power was too big to let flop completely.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:30 pm 
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Dada God
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From guttertrash:
"Yes, I do understand this, but if the soundscan figures as of three years ago which is the last I have seen are around 1.2 or 1.3 million sold."

Not only does that not answer the point Si made, I don't think that particular method of registering sales was around when the album was released. As someone who 'was there' as it were, I can tell you the information going around was that around two million copies were sold in America by the summer of 1990 with around another two million sold around the world and whatever you or I might say about it, it remains the biggest selling album in Alice's entire catalogue. "Poison" was a success because it made a connection with hundreds of thousands of people around the world in a way that the other singles from that album did not. The amount of promotion behind it was not the sole cause of that success because if it was, the other singles would have been as successful.

> and Sony did that for Alice, because in my opinion, this album with it's star power was too big to let flop completely.

With so many different factors involved, it almost impossible to state definitively why something was or was not a success.


Last edited by A_MichaelUK on Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:31 pm 
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Dada God
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From Spettro:
"Omg, can you all just STFU about Trash already? It was a good album for it's time."

I have to agree. This obsession some people have with this album is somewhat bewildering.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:38 pm 
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Billion Dollar Baby
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I'm sure it is just all some kind of conspiracy to hold back the truth about how great Alice has been over the years. I mean that's what everything is today, right? The numbers and data don't fit what we've been told and heard, so the data is wrong. Epic took the time to get Firehouse, Living Colour, and Europe their albums certified double platinum on November 9th, 1994 (yes, all at the same time). This was 4, 8 and 10 years after their albums were released. I'm sure Trash just somehow fail through the cracks while they were taken the time to get these other releases certified. I guess they just cared more for those bands. I finally realize that global warming is a hoax! Thanks guys!

That's what we were talking about right? :laugh:


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:23 pm 
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Dada God
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From guttertrash:
"Epic took the time to get Firehouse, Living Colour, and Europe their albums certified double platinum on November 9th, 1994 (yes, all at the same time). This was 4, 8 and 10 years after their albums were released. I'm sure Trash just somehow fail through the cracks while they were taken the time to get these other releases certified. I guess they just cared more for those bands."

Actually that's more or less what happened because within a year of that date, Alice's biggest supporter had left the company. Not everyone at a label works on all the artists on that label, so caring has nothing to do with it and relying on "numbers and data" isn't going to give you the whole picture if that information isn't complete.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:54 pm 
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Billion Dollar Baby
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RIAA certifications really don't mean much (though it would be nice for Alice to get the credit he is due) because it is my understanding a record label has to pay the RIAA to get an album certified once it reaches a certain plateau. For example, Hey Stoopid is gold in a few countries and is said to have sold around half a million copies in the United States so it should be gold. There are other albums that are likely in need of recertification as well.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:56 pm 
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Another positive review:

https://www.therockpit.net/2017/album-r ... aranormal/

Also, not sure if anyone saw this in the other thread, but it appears confirmed that the vinyl version has the two ACG tracks added into the track list prior to the Sound of A.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com ... SX522_.jpg


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:02 am 
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Billion Dollar Baby
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I am at a loss. Was Alice so hated that a label decided to try to kill his career even though he supposedly just exceeded expectstions? I have heard of politics that kept bands for ever getting off the ground, but this is definitely an interesting concept. If Trash went double platinum after just a year, it would seem like Epic/Sony would have had a field day. A career that most didn't believe in beating expectations which is great considering there were two more albums on the deal. Seems to me the label would have done the opposite of what is being claimed, because at the end of the day, this is business, and you have him going back in the studio for another star-studded affair. If this is the case, I am lost on the logic considering that businesses are there to make money, and this actually does the opposite for the label itself. I can understand giving up if the second of a three album deal flopped, but not if the first exceeded expectations.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:36 am 
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Dada God
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guttertrash wrote:
I am at a loss. Was Alice so hated that a label decided to try to kill his career even though he supposedly just exceeded expectstions? I have heard of politics that kept bands for ever getting off the ground, but this is definitely an interesting concept. If Trash went double platinum after just a year, it would seem like Epic/Sony would have had a field day. A career that most didn't believe in beating expectations which is great considering there were two more albums on the deal. Seems to me the label would have done the opposite of what is being claimed, because at the end of the day, this is business, and you have him going back in the studio for another star-studded affair. If this is the case, I am lost on the logic considering that businesses are there to make money, and this actually does the opposite for the label itself. I can understand giving up if the second of a three album deal flopped, but not if the first exceeded expectations.



I did wonder why all concerned did not follow up such a smash. It's been discussed before with some here claiming that Nirvana et all coming along killed Child and his fluff metal cohorts thus scuppering us hearing more filth about Alice frolicking around in his dungeon bedroom.










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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:16 am 
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Dada God
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pitkin88 wrote:
guttertrash wrote:
I am at a loss. Was Alice so hated that a label decided to try to kill his career even though he supposedly just exceeded expectstions? I have heard of politics that kept bands for ever getting off the ground, but this is definitely an interesting concept. If Trash went double platinum after just a year, it would seem like Epic/Sony would have had a field day. A career that most didn't believe in beating expectations which is great considering there were two more albums on the deal. Seems to me the label would have done the opposite of what is being claimed, because at the end of the day, this is business, and you have him going back in the studio for another star-studded affair. If this is the case, I am lost on the logic considering that businesses are there to make money, and this actually does the opposite for the label itself. I can understand giving up if the second of a three album deal flopped, but not if the first exceeded expectations.



I did wonder why all concerned did not follow up such a smash. It's been discussed before with some here claiming that Nirvana et all coming along killed Child and his fluff metal cohorts thus scuppering us hearing more filth about Alice frolicking around in his dungeon bedroom.


that pretty much sums it up. Nirvana and grunge killed the whole hair metal scene--we should all be forever grateful to them all! Fortunately, Alice was just riding the hair metal trend and was able to escape the doom of nearly all of the other hairsprayed buffoons!

Also, it explains why Chris Cornell was brought on for The Last Temptation.

When one stops to think of all of the changing musical trends that Alice has navigated and survived over the years it make his career all that more remarkable!


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:40 am 
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Billion Dollar Baby
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mr.barlow wrote:
When one stops to think of all of the changing musical trends that Alice has navigated and survived over the years it make his career all that more remarkable!


I see what you're getting at but I'm not so sure I agree. Alice never developed a signature musical style in his solo career. Instead he flowed with the times. Other artists pretty much ignored musical trends and stuck to their musical style, like AC/DC for example, or even Deep Purple, and they kept a larger audience and continue to sell more albums. Alice is "remarkable" for changing with the times, but often with mixed results. Personally I find Alice more interesting and even his missteps are often enjoyable. EXCEPT C and RYFAY! :)


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:26 am 
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Dada God
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From guttertrash:
I am at a loss. Was Alice so hated that a label decided to try to kill his career even though he supposedly just exceeded expectstions?

Who said he was "hated" and where did I state anything even remotely close to that? I actually checked yesterday with Toby Mamis and he confirmed everything I stated. If you prefer to believe what you read on the internet that's your business, but if it was a case of just exaggerating figures to make Alice look good, then that could just as easily be done for the albums that didn't do as well. Also, you are citing a source which did not start counting until 1991 which was two years after the album was releaed but you still haven't addressed that. If you want to continue this, there is a thread on these figures from 2013 which you might find informative.

> If Trash went double platinum after just a year, it would seem like Epic/Sony would have had a field day.

Well, like I already stated, they took out a full - page advertisement in "Billboard" to anounce it (although I'm willing to be corrected on the actual contents of it).


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