Special Forces in Paris DVD

[Keith1980]

[

[mr.barlow]

If there was no planning how did the prop fake hand get on the set in the first place?

[mr.barlow]

And remember--the infamous chicken incident was unplanned and spontanious as well.

[Keith1980]

I should say their is very little planning cos ur right the stage design had to be designed. But watching this and seeing him not sing when hes singing is not very well planned or edited

[mr.barlow]

Also, if there were no plans than how did the scenes get choreographed? How did they get permission to film in the junk yard? How did they get permission to film at the church? It was not a live performance and I would bet it was WELL PLANNED out in advance as it was a major event for Alice--especially to get that kind of exposure with his career in decline.

You do not produce a major tv special like that without having plans.

As far as the filming is concerned is there a reason you choose not to take Erik Scott at his word? Do you know something we don't?

At any rate--nearly everything Alice Cooper (original group or solo) has ever done has been planned. They planned out their shock. They planned out how to offend people. My God--it's what made Shep Gordon a multi-millionaire!

One of the hallmarks of achieving successd is a good plan and Shep had one!

[Keith1980]

I am taking him at his word he said their really was no plans when they showed up in paris of what to do just that they were foing to do something lol.

[mr.barlow]

This video looks like it was shot in a day or 2 and erick says they couldnt do more than one or 2 songs a day. Really?? I think hes talking about editing took a week to 10 days and thats the best they could do lol.

The above quote is yours taken from a previous post.

Erik stated they could not do one or two songs a day which would make perfect sense as each segment would take many hours to set up. the junkyard "Clones" segment alone I believe took an entire day by itself. If I rmember it correctly it took over a week to complete the filming.

Yet you state what YOU surmise was that "he was talking about editing". This is not what he said. Again--why are you not taking him at his word.

He was there and involved in the production. He was part of it and helped create it.

As far as the lip synching being out of sync with the lyrics, I would believe that there was not any money left in the budget to reshoot the segment.

[pitkin88]

The thumb bit was about building anticipation to when he finally gets it in his mouth. It's the highlight of the segment and I'm sure it was planned that way. It was a taped segment and I'm sure some of the ideas were thought out and planned in advance--this being one of them. It's the 'take-away" moment of the segment.

You have to remember that whether in the best of shape or the worst of shape nearly everything Alice does is very calculated. I'm not saying that there's never any spontanity, but a framework is established going into any show or taping.

With the 1981 incarnation of the character Alice went out of his way to bring back the edge and weirdness as it originally started out. It was a calculated move. He was in the depths of drug addiction which further led to the repulsiveness of his appearence, but even then in 1981 he was able to still perform and some would argue give some of the best live shows of his career. Talk to anyone whon was at any of the SF era shows.

The whole plan was to be very unerving and very shocking--like it originally started out.. He wanted to shock. He wanted to repluse. He wanted back his edge. He wanted people to feel uneasy. He wanted people to see him as "messed up". That was the goal--the was the whole planned idea!

The problem is that by 1981 the whole world and fan base had come to expect the loveable villain of the classic character. They no longer wanted Alice to shock and be weird--they wanted him to entertain. The large majority of fans were shocked by it.

I find that very ironinc--a fan base that fell in love with the master of shock rock were then replused when he actually went back to being shocking!

At any rate--with the comeback, Alice reverted to the loveabble villain of the classic character and has given his fans what they wanted ever since.

Have to disagree. No one, at least who I knew ( including Amuk ) was saying how bad Alice looked. It is only with hindsight that this is being said. England was just happy to see Alice Cooper. It wasn't like the UK was flooded with cocaine. I dont know anyone who had even used it at that point. We had hardly seen much of Alice Cooper in the country so anything was a blessing. The UK was a success with I think all the shows selling out and If I remember correctly more being added.

[Keith1980]

This video looks like it was shot in a day or 2 and erick says they couldnt do more than one or 2 songs a day. Really?? I think hes talking about editing took a week to 10 days and thats the best they could do lol.

The above quote is yours taken from a previous post.

Erik stated they could not do one or two songs a day which would make perfect sense as each segment would take many hours to set up. the junkyard "Clones" segment alone I believe took an entire day by itself. If I rmember it correctly it took over a week to complete the filming.

Yet you state what YOU surmise was that "he was talking about editing". This is not what he said. Again--why are you not taking him at his word.

He was there and involved in the production. He was part of it and helped create it.

As far as the lip synching being out of sync with the lyrics, I would believe that there was not any money left in the budget to reshoot the segment.

Ohhh i get u. That was sarcasm lol the video looks like it was put together poorly. Hence it was never released. But maybe aired in paris. I still want to see it on dvd.

[mr.barlow]

The thumb bit was about building anticipation to when he finally gets it in his mouth. It's the highlight of the segment and I'm sure it was planned that way. It was a taped segment and I'm sure some of the ideas were thought out and planned in advance--this being one of them. It's the 'take-away" moment of the segment.

You have to remember that whether in the best of shape or the worst of shape nearly everything Alice does is very calculated. I'm not saying that there's never any spontanity, but a framework is established going into any show or taping.

With the 1981 incarnation of the character Alice went out of his way to bring back the edge and weirdness as it originally started out. It was a calculated move. He was in the depths of drug addiction which further led to the repulsiveness of his appearence, but even then in 1981 he was able to still perform and some would argue give some of the best live shows of his career. Talk to anyone whon was at any of the SF era shows.

The whole plan was to be very unerving and very shocking--like it originally started out.. He wanted to shock. He wanted to repluse. He wanted back his edge. He wanted people to feel uneasy. He wanted people to see him as "messed up". That was the goal--the was the whole planned idea!

The problem is that by 1981 the whole world and fan base had come to expect the loveable villain of the classic character. They no longer wanted Alice to shock and be weird--they wanted him to entertain. The large majority of fans were shocked by it.

I find that very ironinc--a fan base that fell in love with the master of shock rock were then replused when he actually went back to being shocking!

At any rate--with the comeback, Alice reverted to the loveabble villain of the classic character and has given his fans what they wanted ever since.

Have to disagree. No one, at least who I knew ( including Amuk ) was saying how bad Alice looked. It is only with hindsight that this is being said. England was just happy to see Alice Cooper. It wasn't like the UK was flooded with cocaine. I dont know anyone who had even used it at that point. We had hardly seen much of Alice Cooper in the country so anything was a blessing. The UK was a success with I think all the shows selling out and If I remember correctly more being added.

I agree that looking back in hindsight offers a much different perspective than that of when the events were unfolding. It gives you time to analyze situations and decisions and form opinions about them. I'm sure things looked much different at the time.

As I've written on here many times, the SF era look is my favorite. I remember the first time I saw it and that it was really weird. I was a teenager at the time and SF Alice and the album is what made me a fan. I was aware of his classic hits and the classic make-up (and liked both), but it was SF Alice that hooked me.

I too, never really heard anyone talking about how bad he looked as it was more of a "WTF is that?" response. I remember my friends and I watching the Charlie Rose interview on videotape (I was fortunate to have a videotape recorder back then) and we must have watched it a million times. We were all fascinated with this "new" Alice but we all knew something was amiss. It took my mother(who actually got a big kick out of Alice) who took one look at him and said "he's strung out on drugs" for us to realize what it was. I think behind the scenes however, people around him were starting to worry about him around this time.

The UK tour was a huge success and the fans embraced him. But overall the whole SF album was a huge flop. After Flush The Fashion there was a decision made to "toughen" up the sound and the image. They wanted the "edge" back in all of it. He felt he had as much--or even more--edge that the punk rockers at the time. Well, in my opinion he put them all to shame with the Special Forces character. The great thing was it was more than a character--it was genuine and authentic which is evident in the live shows. Maybe the drugs added to his edge--but whatever the reason it was incredible.

The thing is that a large majority of the fans, and the music buying public were not buying it. To this day you have a lot of fans who never understood this era and who hated it at the time and still hate it. You and I are a couple of the exceptions. Alice himself has been quoted as saying when he sees that character it scares him! I think he said something to the effect of "what was I thinking?"

It's my opinion that after the mainstreaming of the original character with WTMN in 1975 and into the late 1970's, the fans and the public expected Alice to forever be that character. He was no longer loathed but now beloved by everyone from children to old ladies. Escargot flopped for this reason--among others, and the early 1980's Alice incarnations for the same reason.

Alice recovered by bringing back the original character in 1986 the same as he did in 1979 with FTI.

I can even remember some rumblings about him appearing out of make-up on the cover of Trash and in the Poison video. I think there was a sigh of relief when in the live show he got into the classic character make-up within the show. Since then he has never strayed too far away from that classic image.

[A_MichaelUK]

From pitkin88:
"Have to disagree. No one, at least who I knew ( including Amuk ) was saying how bad Alice looked."

That would be a very small pool though. Even if it wasn't mentioned, it doesn't mean people weren't thinking it and besides, it all kind of fit in with the image. Similarly, I will bet people didn't go around in 1975 saying how bad Keith Richards looked. It wasn't necessary because it didn't need to be said. I think there were references to Alice's appearance beyond what you were aware of and that's primarily because at that time in Britain, he was getting almost no exposure.

[A_MichaelUK]

From keith1980:
"Hence it was never released. But maybe aired in paris. I still want to see it on dvd."

It was a television programme made to be broadcast, which is what happened.

[pitkin88]

From pitkin88:
"Have to disagree. No one, at least who I knew ( including Amuk ) was saying how bad Alice looked."

That would be a very small pool though. Even if it wasn't mentioned, it doesn't mean people weren't thinking it and besides, it all kind of fit in with the image. Similarly, I will bet people didn't go around in 1975 saying how bad Keith Richards looked. It wasn't necessary because it didn't need to be said. I think there were references to Alice's appearance beyond what you were aware of and that's primarily because at that time in Britain, he was getting almost no exposure.

I'd take a small pool of die hards over of others we dont know any day.Did you ever mention it in your fanzine?

[A_MichaelUK]

From pitkin88:
"I'd take a small pool of die hards over of others we dont know any day."

What about the press articles that did mention it? Just because you're unaware of them doesn't mean it wasn't mentioned.

>Did you ever mention it in your fanzine?

I never got as far as the "Special Forces" tour and besides, I did mention the rumour about what was going on in the first issue.

[darkmenace]

It's my opinion that after the mainstreaming of the original character with WTMN in 1975 and into the late 1970's, the fans and the public expected Alice to forever be that character. He was no longer loathed but now beloved by everyone from children to old ladies. Escargot flopped for this reason--among others, and the early 1980's Alice incarnations for the same reason.

I don't agree. I think Alice could have evolved in new directions just the same as David Bowie did, except Alice didn't execute those changes in a convincing manner with quality albums. Who's going to buy into Maurice Escargot after listening to Lace and Whiskey? The music, the direction are too weak. Same with Special Forces. The look was cool, but people had already stopped paying attention and there are no standout tracks on the album to draw people in.

[pitkin88]

It's my opinion that after the mainstreaming of the original character with WTMN in 1975 and into the late 1970's, the fans and the public expected Alice to forever be that character. He was no longer loathed but now beloved by everyone from children to old ladies. Escargot flopped for this reason--among others, and the early 1980's Alice incarnations for the same reason.

I don't agree. I think Alice could have evolved in new directions just the same as David Bowie did, except Alice didn't execute those changes in a convincing manner with quality albums. Who's going to buy into Maurice Escargot after listening to Lace and Whiskey? The music, the direction are too weak. Same with Special Forces. The look was cool, but people had already stopped paying attention and there are no standout tracks on the album to draw people in.

Agreed on Lace and Whiskey but not Special Forces. FTF got a;most zero publicity and from then on Warners did sod all for Alice. With some backing those four albums could have done a lot better. Look at the turd Constrictor for what some support can do.

[darkmenace]

Yeah, I agree, SF was more interesting than LW. And also that C was a turd.

[The son of Don Quijote]

Because there is always a room for different opinions in a public forum like this. Here comes my contradictory opinion. I think Lace And Whiskey is a very good album. Special Forces on the other hand is the most terrible studio album Alice Cooper has ever released and I don't like live footage from that tour either. There is nothing A grade on that album musically. First two songs are okay but nothing after that works. The guitar work on Lace And Whiskey is way better. Nothing on Special Forces comes close to guitar solos on It's Hot Tonight, King Of The Silver Screen and My God.

Luckily Alice Cooper improved his game on the next album Zipper Catches Skin and DaDa was/is a brilliant masterpiece and perhaps a pinnacle of his career.

[mestreech]

Because there is always a room for different opinions in a public forum like this. Here comes my contradictory opinion. I think Lace And Whiskey is a very good album. Special Forces on the other hand is the most terrible studio album Alice Cooper has ever released and I don't like live footage from that tour either. There is nothing A grade on that album musically. First two songs are okay but nothing after that works. The guitar work on Lace And Whiskey is way better. Nothing on Special Forces comes close to guitar solos on It's Hot Tonight, King Of The Silver Screen and My God.

Luckily Alice Cooper improved his game on the next album Zipper Catches Skin and DaDa was/is a brilliant masterpiece and perhaps a pinnacle of his career.

As opinions differ i don't agree with you. L&W sounded more like a group on the end with no extra power and enthusiastics. A more or less contractual album.
SF sounded like a bunch of young dogs with all the power. One of my favorites.

[pitkin88]

Because there is always a room for different opinions in a public forum like this. Here comes my contradictory opinion. I think Lace And Whiskey is a very good album. Special Forces on the other hand is the most terrible studio album Alice Cooper has ever released and I don't like live footage from that tour either. There is nothing A grade on that album musically. First two songs are okay but nothing after that works. The guitar work on Lace And Whiskey is way better. Nothing on Special Forces comes close to guitar solos on It's Hot Tonight, King Of The Silver Screen and My God.

Luckily Alice Cooper improved his game on the next album Zipper Catches Skin and DaDa was/is a brilliant masterpiece and perhaps a pinnacle of his career.

The songs on Special Forces really didn't need great solos as they were more punky and stripped down. I believe most fans think Zipper is the weakest of the unholy four.

As for hits it is a complete mystery to me that Clones from FTF wasn't huge. Immediately catchy and the timing was right for a synth hit. Warners should have thrown everything behind it. After an age of insipid ballads we have this gem of a single that was left to flounder.