Origin of Alice eye make-up?

danielleV · Post by **danielleV** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 1:17 pm

Finally what was the origin of the 2 Alice eyes make up? the 4 lines up and under the eyes, (?)
and
the spider multiple lines around each eye. ( inspired by spider body?)
and
do you know why it is black?
Thank you in advance.

Si · Post by Si » Sun Sep 14, 2014 1:26 pm

Spider makeup:
"My look with the eyeliner was modeled after Bette Davis in "What Ever Happened to Baby Jane?" Her makeup was applied thick and was smeared. "

danielleV · Post by **danielleV** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 1:52 pm

Thanks Si
i searched google and i saw hundred of pics of Bette Davis but i didnt see the 4 or multiple lines around her eyes, only thick black makeup...
http://www.krustal.com/wp-content/uploa ... neface.jpg

Si · Post by Si » Sun Sep 14, 2014 2:05 pm

Inspired by doesn`t mean copied!!

danielleV · Post by **danielleV** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 2:23 pm

My énglish is poor
What i meant Was strictly a question of graphism. What gave to Alice this idea of
4 vertical lines coming out of each eye?
See?

Si · Post by Si » Sun Sep 14, 2014 2:33 pm

What you seem to be looking for is a picture of someone else wearing the makeup before Alice.
You may or may not find that somewhere, but the point is that Alice was inspired to create his make up from something else that didn`t look specifically the same. He saw something and it put ideas in his head and he created the spider-eye makeup.
He didn't copy it from somewhere else. He created it drawing on various other things he had seen.
Not everybody simply copies things from other peoples ideas.

danielleV · Post by **danielleV** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 2:50 pm

Si
You misunderstood me
i NEVER talk of any COPY.( and coming from me, one of his biggest fans, this would have been surprising!!)
I am not a great artist like Alice but i am an artist too and when we say "inspired", it mean in artist languages, not copy of some stuff, but poetic, philosophic, horrific, ancient tales, etc, inspiration; my english is poor and i cant explain right what i mean.... see,
https://scontent-b-cdg.xx.fbcdn.net/hph ... e=549D6723
on this leather i painted, inspired by Alice, the name Witch is here because of the legend of Alice Cooper 17th century witch (who is a tale); the snakes are here because of the love and symbol of Alice about them; the scars and blood symbol of Alice's taste for death and horror, etc.
So
For Alice 's make up, i would have love to know why he painted the black lines out of his eyes, symetrically, what was his inspiration, even if aesthetic, symbolic, spiritual; see??

Si · Post by Si » Sun Sep 14, 2014 3:03 pm

danielleV wrote:Si
You misunderstood me
i NEVER talk of any COPY.
I am not a great artist like Alice but i am an artist too and when we say "inspired", it mean in artist languages, not copy of some stuff, but poetic, philosophic, horrific, ancient tales, etc, inspiration; my english is poor and i cant explain right what i mean.... see,

I KNOW what inspired means

danielleV wrote:on this leather i painted, inspired by Alice, the name Witch is here because of the legend of Alice Cooper 17th century witch; the snakes are here because of the love and symbol of Alice about them; the scars and blood symbol of Alice's taste for death and horror, etc.
So For Alice's make up, i would have love to know why he painted the black lines out of his eyes, symetrically, what was his inspiration, even if aesthetic, symbolic, spiritual; see??

Yes, I understand. That is why I quoted Alice stating what inspired the spider eye makeup. It was most significantly Bette Davis's smeared makeup in 'Whatever happened to Baby Jane'

So in your image you would want to copy a photo of Bette Davis in that film:
http://moviehole.net/img/bettedavis.jpg

Another influence could maybe have been model Twiggy's makeup in the 60s:
https://sarapaynemcfarland.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/twiggy2.jpg

danielleV · Post by **danielleV** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 3:50 pm

Yes! !!
Its the shape of extended eyelashes mixed with maybe the idea of Tears, that are the supreme expression of pain, with Blood.
And we know how Pain and Blood are some central characters in Alice's World

A_MichaelUK · Post by **A_MichaelUK** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 4:20 pm

From DanielleV:
"Finally what was the origin of the 2 Alice eyes make up? the 4 lines up and under the eyes"

It is based on the traditional image of a clown (as are the lines coming out if the corners of the mouth) and also The Great Tyrant from "Barbarella", which is one of Alice's favourite films.

>andthe spider multiple lines around each eye.

That was based on a small poster advertising The Joffrey Ballet which Dennis Dunaway found.

danielleV · Post by **danielleV** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 4:22 pm

Oh really? I didnt knew that.
Thank you. Merci.

Toronto Bob · Post by **Toronto Bob** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 8:06 pm

Or maybe Miss Pamela gave him the idea - tough to say for sure

http://groupie-couture.tumblr.com/post/ ... des-barres

mr.barlow · Post by **mr.barlow** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 8:29 pm

I always figured that his "classic" eye-make up was a take on the make up of a tragic sad clown of the Italian opera. It's very close to that look and if I remember correctly, I read an interview with Alice where he stated that this was a major inflence on the look. You can google images of "opera clowns" and you will see many photos that date back to the early 1900s for reference.

danielleV · Post by **danielleV** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 8:43 pm

Excellent reflexion mr Barlow; you are right, anyway Alice's set and shows are close to operas , my favorite is Faust of Gounod, and i love Operas; this is why (not to say the quality of his music, his fantasque inspiration, his unique voice...) i always admired Alice shows;( you go to ACDC , to Motorhead, etc; nothing to see (even if there IS something to ear!!!!)

A_MichaelUK · Post by **A_MichaelUK** » Mon Sep 15, 2014 11:45 am

From Toronto Bob:
"Or maybe Miss Pamela gave him the idea - tough to say for sure"

I thought so too (and she probably got it from Twiggy anyway), but Dennis said it was the poster he found.

A_MichaelUK · Post by **A_MichaelUK** » Mon Sep 15, 2014 11:50 am

I want to correct something I wrote. I wrote: "(as are the lines coming out if the corners of the mouth)" but what I meant to say was that, reportedly, those were meant to look like the lines you see on a ventriloquist's dummy.

philouze · Post by **philouze** » Mon Sep 15, 2014 2:10 pm

A_MichaelUK wrote:From Toronto Bob:
"Or maybe Miss Pamela gave him the idea - tough to say for sure"

I thought so too (and she probably got it from Twiggy anyway)

So did I... Is this another "myth"?? Nudge nudge, know what I mean, say no more...

alan1958 · Post by **alan1958** » Mon Sep 15, 2014 2:28 pm

..........the lines coming out if the corners of the mouth were to look like the lines on a ventriloquist's dummy.

Wow : 40 yrs on , and that theory NEVER crossed my mind ....

That's fascinating , and I'll look at it completely differently now .

A_MichaelUK · Post by **A_MichaelUK** » Mon Sep 15, 2014 6:33 pm

Alan1958 wrote:
"That's fascinating , and I'll look at it completely differently now ."

I also should have added that the lines weren't meant to be exactly like those on a ventriloquist's dummy - just based on those. When Alice paints them on, they come out of his mouth curved and then they go straight down. Somehow, they look more evil like that.

Mr.Bluelegs · Post by **Mr.Bluelegs** » Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:13 pm

Does Ceasar Romero's Joker look from the '60's Batman series factor in to his look?

Origin of Alice eye make-up?

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